David_Parker Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Many stores and manufacturers offer "lifetime" guarantees on their products, including clothing. Some have a "no questions" or "satisfaction guaranteed" policy, while others seem to give you a major song and dance. Many people totally abuse the policy, but the company seems to make up in increased revenue for having the policy in the first place. I would say far and above all the companies out there is LL Bean. On the other hand, companies like TNF seem to have an extremely limited "lifetime" warantee, going so far as claiming "it's the expected lifetime of the garment". How do you define that without getting into an arguement? Goretex offers a "lifetime" warantee, but you certainly wouldn't go straight to them to replace a leaky jacket or pants. So what good is that? What is your experience and how do you interpret "lifetime" guarantee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncascademtns Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Lifetime Guarantees should be within reason. I've stood in line at the customer counter REI and experience some funny and outragous returns. One lady brought back a REI Cotten Sweater from the 60's or something like that. The REI logo was nothing the sales person had ever seen. Said she didn't like it....(anymore). The person behind the counter did not know what to do with it. Get this, same time. Guy brings in a pair of worn out boots. Said they didn't fit......(anymore). Don't ask me why I was in line.....I don't remember. Really, REI should keep all the unique returns and have some time of display case for the public to view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 They should put the returns in a display case along with the name of the person who returned them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Lifetime is generally considered to be "the lifetime of the product" not the lifetime of the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harkin_Banks Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 yes, once the product breaks, the warranty ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 TNF has a pretty bad policy, IMO. I bought one of their expedition duffles when I went to Aconcagua back in 2000 so that my gear would sit in camp in a well protected bag. After being carried on mules for 3 days to camp there were holes worn in it. When I got home the person at their warranty/repairs desk told me that I had not used the bag as intended. That it was not intended to be strapped onto a mule with rope and have friction applied to the surface over many hours of travel. I was a little confused since it was their expedition duffle. Finally a manager sorted the whole thing out and they repaired the bag for free to keep me from making a scene. I later found out that they had stopped using ballistic nylon as the base fabric before coating it with rubber. But they still charge the same amount for a crappy product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I have never encountered any TNF products that were any good except ome of the tents so I'm not surprised. I'm sure they are scheming a way to fuck the tents up even now if they haven't done it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harkin_Banks Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I'm sure they can find some way to make a tent that requires batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COL._Von_Spanker Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I returned my petzle aiders to REI cause they suck. They even take back climbing pro. As far as I am concerned, 100% satisfaction garanteed means just that. If I buy a smart wool shirt for $80 and in a year it starts to have runs' in in and comes unraveled, then I am not 100% satified; so back it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 yeah, anyone seen TNF's new line of tents...? warning: after clicking this link ANY REMAINING /ALL respect for TNF will be LOST!!!! tnf's new tent line for the walmart/k-mart climber dude that's some sorry ass shit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harkin_Banks Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 But look at those four gettin it on in the mummy bags when the trailhead's a rockin don't come a knockin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harkin_Banks Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 BE SURE to read the disclaimer on that page before you buy **Doormats shown in photo ARE NOT INCLUDED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolscongress Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 my opinion: the warranties are generally very clearly stated on the product. people who return boots, jackets, etc. after thrashing them are assholes. it's wrong, and it makes everything more expensive for the rest of us. good companies take care of their customers, and if we want them to stick around we should do the same. re: Chelle's comment on TNF, i've had the same problems with them. it's always the same thing with those fucking guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 yeah, it's sad. I'd have to say the best company I've had dealings w/ was Mountainsmith Backpacks though. I dropped it off to get some zippers replaced and they just went to town on my pack w/o me asking. New pack straps,side pockets, fixed stuff that marmots had chewed on, updated some stuff... quite a nice surprise. Been using that big pack for 15 years now and it still works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I have had the same luck with Patagonia. When you buy one of their products it's as if you enter a contract with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I returned my petzle aiders to REI cause they suck. They even take back climbing pro. As far as I am concerned, 100% satisfaction garanteed means just that. If I buy a smart wool shirt for $80 and in a year it starts to have runs' in in and comes unraveled, then I am not 100% satified; so back it goes. But that depends what you did with it doesn't it? If you went caving in it or went bushwacking in it until all the threads were pulled to bits then you have no cause to be dissatisfied. The key point to remember here is that the cost of the guarentee gets factored into the cost of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 REI but you've got to haggle sometimes Patagonia flawless BD awesome, awesome, awesome TNF weak, although if you spend $5 at US Outdoor Store in PDX they seem to get stuff fixed or replaced, probably just due to the volume of returns they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trundle Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'm not generally a North Face fan, but have had only a good experience with their guarantee. Their trail shoes fit me well and when one pair started falling apart after not much use, they sent me a much nicer replacement pair. That said, I'd rather my shoes didn't fall apart. But at least they took care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 So the question is then, why say "lifetime?" or what does that really mean? If your gortex delams and leaks after 8 years, do you take it back? If the velcro on your OR gators blows out after 3 years? If the internal gators on your pants are shredded after six years? All this leaves a big grey area between exercizing your rights and being an "asshole." I happen to be in that grey area with TNF right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Goretex offers a "lifetime" warantee, but you certainly wouldn't go straight to them to replace a leaky jacket or pants. So what good is that? Sure you would. My friend did that with a Moonstone Jacket that was leaking. Old, but not too old. Shouldn't have been leaking anyways. Gore said, yup, that sux0r, go buy a new jacket and send us the bill... That's right, any jacket..." So she did, and they sent her a cheque. When my Arc'teryx jacket started delamming, they made it quite clear that they were not footing the bill, that Gore was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 yeah, anyone seen TNF's new line of tents...? warning: after clicking this link ANY REMAINING /ALL respect for TNF will be LOST!!!! tnf's new tent line for the walmart/k-mart climber dude that's some sorry ass shit... Yeah the few shreds of respect are totally gone. Could buy half a dozen identical ones from Wal-Mart. Then everytime one of 'em breaks, just pull out one more. It would be way cheaper in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolscongress Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 So the question is then, why say "lifetime?" or what does that really mean? If your gortex delams and leaks after 8 years, do you take it back? If the velcro on your OR gators blows out after 3 years? If the internal gators on your pants are shredded after six years? All this leaves a big grey area between exercizing your rights and being an "asshole." I happen to be in that grey area with TNF right now. right, i know it's ambiguous. 'lifetime' means normal life of the product. is it reasonable to expect gaiters and the like to be unscarred after 4, 6, or 8 years? i don't think so. you could make gear like that, but it would be too heavy and more expensive. warranties cover defects in materials and workmanship. that means stitching, delam problems, bad hardware, etc. we don't expect a 'lifetime' warranty with cars, and why not? because things that get used regularly and hard don't last forever. when i break a pick on my tools, i don't ask BD to replace it, even though i was using it only how it was intended to be used. course, if that same pick broke when i set the tool down on a rock, i'd complain. anyway, i'm not suggesting you're an asshole. but all of us know those folks who proudly return stuff they've wrecked and brag about it. i don't support that kind of nonsense. it lacks dignity, and honor; it's too much of the new american attitude that says no individual can be held responsible for his actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I am with Fools congress. Lifetime means the reasonable life of the product. If you take in gaiters that are full of crampon holes that past life. If they are well cared for but used, they should stay good. Same with a jacket. Seams parting, delaming, leaky units are manufactures problems. Torn on the rocks, melted in the fire, "I accidently towed my truck with it" are lifetime past due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 yeah, anyone seen TNF's new line of tents...? warning: after clicking this link ANY REMAINING /ALL respect for TNF will be LOST!!!! tnf's new tent line for the walmart/k-mart climber dude that's some sorry ass shit... hey! I have the 8 person version of that tent...its a great tent for 4 kids, 2 parents in a car camping environment... Sorry i just can't be so core as you though...WALMART FOREVER... say, how did that last 5.7c/d mosspile go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 I am with Fools congress. Lifetime means the reasonable life of the product. If you take in gaiters that are full of crampon holes that past life. If they are well cared for but used, they should stay good. Same with a jacket. Seams parting, delaming, leaky units are manufactures problems. Torn on the rocks, melted in the fire, "I accidently towed my truck with it" are lifetime past due. Ketch and Congress, yes, I agree as I would hope most people would that taking in stuff with holes from wear and tear is not appropriate. But consider this. Last year, my OR gators had the velcro blow off for the second time. (The first time I re-sewed it on.) But if Or can't use strong thread or grab enough material where it gets sewn to have the velcro stay sewed on, that's a defect imo. So yes, my gators had crampon holes that I had patched myself, but that is not why I brought them back. Likewise I have pants that have holes in them I have patched. That is not the reason I have sent them in for repair or replacement. But sewn seams are blowing apart all over and not because I have gotten fat. It's like the thread has suddenly rotted!And what if your goretex delams after 10 years? Get off the holes and normal wear and tear (abuse) stuff. I'm asking what is "lifetime" for delam gortex, thread rotting, snaps breaking, velcro coming off, gortex leaking, stuff that comes apart NOT as a result of user abuse, just normal use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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