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John Frieh

Alpiners Anonymous: PDX dry tool night

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Looks like the rain might hold off for a day or two, anyone up to climb tomorrow (monday) afternoon evening or Tuesday (anytime).

 

Come on, it still beats the gym...!

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how 'bout wendsday after 3 at broughtons? bueller? bueller?

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I am proposing to send this letter to the president and Dean of International Students at Portland Bible college concening an incident which happened to me Saturday.

 

I'd like feedback from the regulars including gramatical and spelling corrections. Have at it.

__________________________________________________

 

 

Edited version next post.

Edited by billcoe

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you didn't want to rumble w/ the romanians? don't you know they hate us for our freedoms!?! musta been big guys bill, i'd imagine you'dve enjoyed working out on them - or perhaps you had already achieved maximum pumpitude?

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That sucks Bill. I would have a hard time not returning the favor.

 

Playing the role of devils advocate did you physically see the kids return to the PBC dorms/buildings? Cause if not the Dean is going to do what all Christians do well: place blame elsewhere.

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It was the end of the day and I was soppin wet and beat. My last 2 fights involved about that many dudes. It's why I quit fighting.

 

And carrying knives while drinking.

 

Course if you were there at 6'7" or whatever that is.....top of the cliff, slippery....hmmm. I could see potential.

 

Frankly, I handled it poorly and with bad communication as well.

 

John: I did not see them return to the dorms.

 

PS, couse they were bigger than me, but then, except for malnutrished 3rd graders, who isn't.

Edited by billcoe

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John: I did not see them return to the dorms.

 

I think the Dean is going to spin it and claim local NE flavor riff raff is the perpetrator and not his students.

 

I would say next time pretend to drive off (go around the corner) and then confirm it was them.

 

And who "owns" Rocky Butte (at least the climbing area)? The city? The college? I'm willing to bet the city so the college has no real rights to trim or remove foliage.

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I'd be careful about pressing this case. If the college has any control over the cliffs, and particularly if their legal office can imagine any situtation in which they could possibly be liable for any damage/injury/death, it might be easier for them to say "OK, no more climbing" than to try to institute complicated rules/procedures to make sure that climbers (and the occasional hiker) are safe.

 

The best course of action might be to 1) find out who the land manager of the cliffs and surrounding area is. This information should shape the strategy for dealing with the problem. If it's private (e.g. owned by the college) you should shut up. If it's the city, you may be able to get something done through official channels.

 

2) Perhaps put in a sign atop the cliff alerting would-be bottle throwers to the possibility of climbers/hikers below. The access fund or local volunteer funds/labor could help with this. 3) the trash can idea seems like a good one to me. If the college/city won't install and maintain it, maybe volunteer climbers could service it? 4) beat their Rusky asses next time. madgo_ron.gif

 

Summary: Focusing attention on safety issues at Rocky Butte might not be conducive to insuring continued climbing access.

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You have solid points Fox. It is a city park the college has no control over it. But I'd rather keep the city out of it, pretty much for the reasons you note.

 

Thinning the brush alone would serve to deter the needles, condoms and beer drinking. Might get rid of some poison oak as well. This is perhaps only 30" from the road and then clear line of sight to the college parking lot and dorms. That give you an idea of how dense the brush is. They could go elsewhere to drink if this pile of rubble was visible to the school. Might make it safer for everybody else too I suppose.

 

Who else says no letter, just thinning and a garbage can or 2? It could be that these Russian will head home for good at the end of the term real soon, riling authorities up may be a poor idea.

 

As far as petitioning the city to do the work, doubtful, they rarely trim or spray the grass on the side of the road, and although they mandate to homeowners that they must elimante English Ivy off their property and maintain strick environmental protocals, the city will not touch Ivy or remove it off their property or follow the protocals.

 

 

Who wants to get into the office pool for how long before a garbage can gets tossed over the top like that last TV and shopping cart did?

 

What are folks thinking of this and how should it be approched?

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ha, ya i was gonna recommend that the trashcan oughta be put on a sturdy leash!

 

incidentally, and not to rain on anyone's parade, but half the fun of drinking beer on top a cliff is hearing the mega-fuck-death explosion of the empties below - i would still expect a lot of bottles to go over the side even if the shiny new can's empty...

Edited by ivan

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A few thoughts on 'Rusky bottle tossing':

 

I like the idea of a sign indicating usage of trails below the cliffs.

 

Maybe the letter should come from the Access fund or Mazamas and be linked to proposed sign or future action by the groups to better climber/hiker/dirt bike jumper safety.

 

Are we sure that you can drink alcohol in a park?

 

If all else fails, we can always adopt the 'eye for an eye' roadmap for peace in the Middle East, and 'rain bottles and trash down from the heavens' on the bible college and its attendees. plan b or m depending...

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half the fun of drinking beer on top a cliff is hearing the mega-fuck-death explosion of the empties below

 

You missing any TV's?

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Bill: I think a note to the PBC is a good idea. If anything, it will let them know that there are serious safety issues around the cliffs, and that students hanging out there(especially drinking) are putting themselves at risk. I think a shorter letter would get your point across better though. If I may be so bold as to edit it down a bit, I'll do that.

 

Climbing tomorrow? I hear broughtons after 3 with Ivan. I'm down for that.

 

Troy

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shit - gotta play house 2morrow afternoon now w/ a vindicative frau - threatened ww3 if i couldn't go thursday though...

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Here's the edited letter, it looks signifigantly better IMO. Thank you.

 

Any thoughts from others on NOT sending it? I'm leaning 70-30 to sending it off

______________________________________________________

 

 

Dear Mr. Damazio,

 

I have a story I need to share with you which involves an incident on Saturday (May 27th 2006).

 

I often climb on the cliffs at Rocky Butte, right across from the Portland Bible College (PBC). I am very active in the Rocky Butte climbing community and I was involved in a cleanup last month involving two grass roots climbing groups.

 

I have always found students and faculty members of the PBC (and have actually climbed with a couple over the years) outstanding in every manner to be measured. Which gives me pause to (dis)believe students of PBC were involved in my incident on Saturday.

 

It was raining and I had the cliff to myself. I had finished climbing at about 4:30 pm, and was at the base of the cliff gathering my gear when I heard a bottle came off from the top of the cliff and break with a crash on a rock below. Upset that somebody would be so callous as to endanger the life of a person below, I started the hike to the top to confront the person. There was another bottle flung off from the top shortly after I started up.

 

When I got to the top I was surprised to see 5 familiar young men standing under a fir tree near the location where the bottles had been thrown. I had seen them earlier on at least 1, maybe 2 previous occasions drinking at that area at the top of the cliff. They had a 6 pack of beer with them, and a few had bottles in their hands also.

 

I clenched my teeth and stepped up to the group and stated that “they had better not be throwing things off the cliff”. They acted confused and in accented voices asked me to repeat myself. I then asked “Are you throwing things off of the cliff?” one of them then replied in heavily accented English (Russian or Ukrainian) “No, do you think we are crazy like you?”

 

I packed up my gear and left. As I got to my car I realized that not only had there been no other people there other than these young men, but there was NO car anywhere on the road either direction. The young men had walked, in the rain, to stand under the tree to drink. I realized they might be international students from PBC who cannot drink inside of the dorm rooms, so walking over to the cliff and drinking out of sight is a possibility. I had seen them drinking in that area previously.

 

I want to share this with the college for several reasons. Please understand I’m only looking out for the safety of Rocky Butte users. I suspect that drinking (and possibly underage drinking) would be an issue you would be interested in, separate of my serious concerns - IF they in fact are your students. Aside from the glass and litter issue, I fear that there may be a liability issue for the college. The edge of the cliff is slippery with moss and mud. If one of these young men slips off, it would be a very painful and needless death.

 

Second, bottles thrown from the cliff pose a serious hazard to those who use the area. Families, in addition to climbers like myself and others, use the area. Being hit with one of these projectiles would cause serious injury or death, in addition to the unsightliness of broken glass.

 

If these are in fact PBC international students, the college could take several steps to correct this dangerous issue.

 

1st) Please could share this concern with PBC students and discuss the law on littering and the potential for loss of life should a thrown beer bottle hit a person.

 

2nd) You could restrict students from accessing the top of the cliff. (I do not think this would be fair to those who just want to wander over for the great view, or want to climb there however)

 

3rd) You could have a public safety officer occasionally walk the trail at the top of this short section of cliff which basically runs from the guardrail across from the domes to approx across from the dorms.

 

4th) You could assign students an honor watch to randomly walk the cliff top as well.

 

5th) Thinning out the underbrush so that drinking and other nefarious activities would be less likely to occur there as the area would be visible, and not hidden like it is currently.

 

I have no direct information that the people responsible for this are affiliated with the PBC. If they are, I hope that you can at least address the issue with your students. If they are not with the PBC, then I thank you for your time and consideration in helping make the area around the PBC a place where everyone can safely visit and enjoy. PBC have been fine stewards of the area and great neighbors.

 

Regards:

 

Bill Coe

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Send it Bill!

 

If the rain holds off, I'll be out at Rocky roped soloing. Maybe down by Phalynx. Feel free to hit me up if anyone else is coming out. Black Audi, blue top rope.

 

Troy

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If you see it again you should just start calling people and round up a posse. When 10 people show up with ice axes and #11 hexes they might stop.

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Joseph and I should be there.

 

I read many reports on CC.com of people going to do some roped soloing laps on Phylynx but have yet to see it. I need to check this out.

 

Curious.

 

Here's one Troy, still a bit muddy but certainly clean enough to climb solo, 30 steps to the East of Phylynx is a new route, 2 shinny chains at the top. Great body movement and feel, abeit still very dirty, and radically easier than Phylynx, crux's off the ground and at the top. Enjoy. (full lenght 60 meter rope mandatory if it's doubled)

 

PS, there is a project 6 feet further east of those chains which has a head sized loose rock 20-30' from the top of it, I'd stay off of that one unless you have a way to dislodge the rock without dropping it on anyone. I somehow missed seeing it until last Saturday.

__________________________________________________

 

CC, when they get done here they can storm the Exit 38 parking area to do a Trotsky on the people breaking into the cars there. Shouldn't this be a topic for the Pirates forum ARRRRRGGGGHH?

 

 

 

 

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Bill: I don't recall if we have met climbing at the Butte before but if you are there as often as it appears, we most likely have.

 

Sorry for the bottles thing, who knows if it was the Bible kids or not. I have also been there over the years when things mysteriously crash out of the sky and smash on the rocks to my side. The shrapnel alone made me want to kill the fucker up top who could be so callous.

 

Regarding the cans, I remember ~four years ago on a cleanup with I think it was "SAVE" and Access Fund installing some cans on chains up top. The cans lasted weeks, max. The cans and chains were ripped out and tossed over the cliff for us to clean the next go-round.

 

I am one of Rocky Butte's biggest fans but I have climbed there once in the last 10 months because I tire of the same old bullshit.

 

More glass chards, more chopped bolts, more trash, more kids stealing gear or fucking with the rope while we are on the climb, more car break-ins, yade yada.

 

After my crew spent hundreds repairing chopped breakfast crack gear with the highest quality stainless glue ins and some jackass with a pry bar ganked them out the next week, I have practically thrown in the towel. It is sad because I used to climb there twice a week and have personally hauled 4 tons of trash from that site. I feel vested in the area and its history yet tire of fighting the punks and their trash and my own climbing community purist douchebags who don't know that most of those routes were manufactured in every way to begin with. What in the hell are you being purist about when the climb itself was manufactured by a guy with a sledgehammer/drill dangling over the cliff with a high power pressure washer?

 

Sorry for the rant, I feel your pain. Sending a lighter version of the letter more in tone of "How can we partner together to better address a shared concern?" would be more effective I feel.

 

AndyBean

Edited by mr_bean

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BlackJack's Fireworks in Vancouver will be opening soon . . . how about stashing some mortars and a lighter at the base of the cliff? Nothing like an explosion at eye level to let people know there's someone below evils3d.gif

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now if only it were peregrines nesting at the butte instead and crack-heads at beacon - they could keep the butte closed all year and i'd give a shit smile.gif

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I remember those trash cans at the Butte as well. I think they lasted all of a week. There was also signage put there at the same time indicating climbers below. Clearly that was effective.

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can someone please summarize this thread for me please? it's way to long to skim.

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now if only it were peregrines nesting at the butte instead and crack-heads at beacon - they could keep the butte closed all year and i'd give a shit smile.gif

 

now that is funny! smile.gif

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