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Dual VS. Mono


daler

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From Don:

 

"think they'd be brilliant with the leverlock heel and the sidelock toe (i.e. wire bail). this combo isn't available from Petzl-Charlet, but it could be "assembled". maybe i'll try to do so... "

 

This is what I have as my "second pair" but they climbed some good ice this year (maybe even more so than my Grivel Rambo Monos).

 

Without the dart's heel hook there is no need for a fancy side lever on the heel... but yes, you do have to special order this "kit" smile.gif

 

I recently wrote this to my friend, who was asking about them:

 

"Sarkens are very good for alpine ice, soft and/or very chandeliered ice. They flex slightly when

frontpointing. The first two teeth will also flex a bit since the I in

the T part of the front point is not long eough. Another centimeter

under the boot would solve this problem. They do not work that well in

flat hard ice - too much bounce (due to flex and two teeth that require double the force needed for penetration).

If you are going for the flat frame buy these, since they are very light and one of the few with teeth on the bottom of the T shaped

frontpoint."

 

I also have a pair of Rambo monos, which work really well in flat hard ice, no bounce, little force required. But they are noticably heavier. I use these for any mix...

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They flex slightly when

frontpointing. The first two teeth will also flex a bit since the I in the T part of the front point is not long eough. Another centimeter under the boot would solve this problem.

 

Interesting ... I see that the dartwins have more of the frontpoint under the front plate than the sarkens, perhaps 1.5cm or so.

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Yes, you are right, I guess they were saving weight. They work perfectly for alpine ice/neve.

The horizontal section of the T is narrower and shorter on the Dartwins... so pick and choose smile.gif

 

I ordered sarkens without putting any time into checking the frontpoints (except on the picture), but when they arrived I could see a slight problem coming up frown.gif

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We have been selling the wire toe and lever heel (code name WireLever) binding on the Sarken crampon at pms. Colin insisted. Some nice binding choices on a nice crampon (Sarken).

 

precisely the set-up that i prefer. up here in Canada, i had to buy a pair of Vasak Leverlocks to get the right heel-pieces to use with the wire-bail toe-pieces from the Sarkens. i'm gonna switch the toe-pieces back and forth, using the Sarkens for more technicval terrain and wearing out the Vasaks in the mountains (glaciated terrain is terribly hard on crampons, cuz u always end up walking on surface rock debris). there's no reason you couldn't do the same swapping trick with Dart or Dartwin fronts.

 

nice to see someone enlightened enough to do the right "mix" in the first place! if Petzl were REALLY on the ball, they'd start offering these brilliant crampons as separate components, front and rear separately, choose the "mix" you prefer...

 

p.s. i'm not completely "dissing" the Spurlock and/or Sidelock heels systems. however, i cannot physically get the Sidelocks to work with my size 11.5 (Euro 46) boots (leather or plastic), and while i had pretty good success with the Sidelocks over a few weekends this winter, i just find them kinda "fiddly" to get on. heel-levers are simple, easy to use, ergonomically "correct", and effective.

 

...but i AM dissing the flexie toe-yoke attachment system. i see that in the latest versions Petzl have added a cover to part of one of the rings to prevent the annoyoing tendency for the yoke to "flip" forward. that shows they are paying attention and responding. good! and this kind of toe-system has the great advantages of:

a) versatility (fits lotsa boots - easy for shops...)

b) not falling off,

c) not requiring deep welts, and

d) not even requiring an accurate fit.

 

but it has two deep flaws (fatal, in my opinion).

1. the crampons cannot be cinched on as firmly as with wire bails, so you get some moveemnt of the crampon relative to the boot. that's not conducive to accurate crampon technique.

2. in the attempt to snug the crampons to the boot, you need to apply quite a bit of force to the yoke. this constricts circulation and leads to cold feet (even to a minor but noticeable degree in plastic boots). i can still recall the speed, pleasure, and comfort of my first pair of clip-on crampons (Chouinard Rigids, circa 1978), and even more important than ease of use and security of attachment was WARMTH! there's no way i'm gonna give that up now. straps are for sex-toys, not crampons!

 

cheers,

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I spent all last week in the Can. Rockies using the latest BD Bionics, set as dual points. They fit very nicely. The heel now has a "microadjustment" to get a tighter fit on in-between sizes, and the front bail can be adjusted so that the amount the front points extend from the toe can be optimized. I'm only on 3's and 4's (no real mixed stuff, yet...), but I had no boot/crampon slippage issues and had a fairly comfortable platform feel.

 

-t

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Well, they aren't the lightest crampons out there, but they really weren't significantly heavier than my old Grivels.

 

As for the secondary points, once I adjusted the front bail to where the primary points "bottom out" even with the front of the boot, I seemed to get enough support to make for a stable platform. Over the course of five climbing days on 3's and 4's (and on some pretty cold mornings), I never popped. But once again, I didn't log any lead time on 5's, which is where I think you start to get a better feel for the fine differences on front points.

 

-t

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