Off_White Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jkrueger: ...Air Guitar... I stood under that climb this summer, marveled at the beauty of the line, took a photo for inspiration, and added it to my tick list. When I do send it, it will now be all the more meaningful to me. On behalf of all of us, please pay close attention to your placements. I'm not a carving fan, but there is a funny point at which someone else's graffiti becomes history. Some great odd carvings from the 30's in an obscure canyon in the Waterpocket Fold of Utah, including an art deco picture of a guy with a pipe spring to mind. Personally, I'm more fond of the plaque or separate monument idea than a carving at the base of the route. It might be most appropriate to ride your bike from Vantage to Everest basecamp with the plaque and install it there, since Goran's (sorry Erden, haven't figured out the umlaut thing) legacy is much greater than anything Vantage has to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: quote:Originally posted by jkrueger: Just because something is on the Internet, it doesn't mean that it is free for the taking. Images, words, and ideas are still copyrighted and trademarked, even though the law has been slow to keep up with the pace of the Internet. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... ... Seems like in this instance, though, the idea is to preserve some valuable information in a non-sneaky kind of way in order to keep it available, which sounds like the original intent. 'Tis a far cry from copying the info, crediting yourself with it, and selling it or something. Well why dont you buy a site and host it yourself since you think it's ok without asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Seems like in this instance, though, the idea is to preserve some valuable information in a non-sneaky kind of way in order to keep it available, which sounds like the original intent. 'Tis a far cry from copying the info, crediting yourself with it, and selling it or something. I agree that the info should not be lost. I was just pointing out that there is a wrong way to go about it (sneaky & illegal), and a right way (non-sneaky & legit). Doing it the right way requires more effort, but is also more beneficial to all in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 "It might be most appropriate to ride your bike from Vantage to Everest basecamp with the plaque and install it there..." Don't forget your otherwise you'll have to try to which probably wouldn't work all the way across the especially if you encounter which will take off your at the very least, making it difficult to get to which would be a bummer! [ 10-08-2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Well why dont you buy a site and host it yourself since you think it's ok without asking. Why don't you try communicating without being an asshole for once? Is that possible for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: quote:Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Well why dont you buy a site and host it yourself since you think it's ok without asking. Why don't you try communicating without being an asshole for once? Is that possible for you? It's a fine example that your solution is not as simple or morally correct for most people. I can't help it if you make comments like that. It just opens you up to more spray. You seem to know everything so I just feed on it. So, no, I guess it's not possible. You'll get over it some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Hey DFA, over the pole makes anything possible. Handle bar mounted rocket launcher (see GregW for details) makes the polar bear threat negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 No offense, but does everyone really need to know that somebody died on a route before climbing it? If there were to be a carving at the base of a route, you wouldn't even have a choice - there it would be, a constant reminder to everyone. Though it would serve as a memorial and a tribute, it would also be kind of spooky. I'm just wondering if this would be a good or a bad thing, all things considered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 The only historic messages allowed should be the ones that say "I AM NEAT AND COOL" spray painted on the base of the rock, and Kokopelli smokin a bong of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jkrueger: No offense, but does everyone really need to know that somebody died on a route before climbing it? If there were to be a carving at the base of a route, you wouldn't even have a choice - there it would be, a constant reminder to everyone. Though it would serve as a memorial and a tribute, it would also be kind of spooky. I'm just wondering if this would be a good or a bad thing, all things considered? Humans like their memorials. There are crosses and plaques all over the mountains in Europe, and how many times have you seen the same on the side of the road where someone was killed in or by a car. It's all over and it's not supposed to be spooky, just a remembrance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 "I can't help it if you make comments like that. It just opens you up to more spray." You don't seem to wait for a comment like that to start in with the confrontational shit, though. It's never a discussion, it's always "I'm Caveman, if you disagree with me about anything I'll hit you over the head." It's not that Dr. Flash Amazing can't take the sprayage, it's just that he can't understand your conversational style, or lack thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Double posts make DFA very which makes DFA which makes DFA stomp on and too much, which makes DFA late which is not . wit' dat? [ 10-08-2002, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisy Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: quote:Originally posted by jkrueger: No offense, but does everyone really need to know that somebody died on a route before climbing it? If there were to be a carving at the base of a route, you wouldn't even have a choice - there it would be, a constant reminder to everyone. Though it would serve as a memorial and a tribute, it would also be kind of spooky. I'm just wondering if this would be a good or a bad thing, all things considered? Humans like their memorials. There are crosses and plaques all over the mountains in Europe, and how many times have you seen the same on the side of the road where someone was killed in or by a car. It's all over and it's not supposed to be spooky, just a remembrance. And 15 million crosses on the summit of Popocapetl or anywhere else Mexicans die en masse. You can tie them off and use them for belays, and no need to carry wands cause the route is lined with crosses too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 i think a memorial is a great idea, but i wouldn't put it at the bottom of the climb where it happened. that's creepy. erect something nice and respectful in an area where people can feel at peace with it; not be scared off by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 I have to agree with thelawgoddess. I personaly enjoy memorials. They are not about how or where a person died but about how they lived nad that people would have known them so well and loved them so well that they would mark a place on our planet for that rememberance is beautiful. I often drive out of my way to stop at war memorials and the such. They are places of power and energy. Where people like me often like to sit and reflect on the universe at large... please keep this in mind as you prepare to memorialize this man who was soooo amazing and well cared for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 I'm with TLG on this one. Freaky nervous nellies (being one myself of course) don't like these things right there where they can be scary. I think a hunk of rock in the parking lot area or near by with names on it, would be neat and cool. Maybe somewhere where people could leave flowers and be contemplative and that sort of thing, rather than *right* at the base of the route. On a related note, I am partial to corded Demel tools but I imagine the cordless variety set on high speed with the right bit would cut through Vantage basalt like buttah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocom Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 While climbing in Australia this summer, I saw a small plaque at the base of a climb, about the size of a 3 x 5 card, it was bolted on with very small bolts. It had a dudes name, his birth and death dates and a short statement. Anyway, turns out he was a 20 year old local climber that had killed himself (not while climbing). It was unobtrusive, and you'd have to look for it to find it. Thats what you should go for. Freaked me out a bit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 i agree with the ladies...i was standing beneath neat and cool in squish about to climb it when some austrian guy says "yah you know sum guy died der las week yah?" "gear pulled"... that is a scary thing...i think that it would be pretty creepy... i dont even think an actual memorial would be what is best rather a "memorial climb" either a first ascent or something and name it the Goran Memorial route...that is a bit more in keeping with the man i think... he was a climber...he wouldn't want people sacred off a route because of his unfortunate accident...just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: The only historic messages allowed should be the ones that say " I AM NEAT AND COOL " spray painted on the base of the rock, and Kokopelli smokin a bong of course. I like "husquavarna" better at Comic Rocks. That and the axle scrape marks from rednecks trying to drive up that 5.4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 When I climb Air Guitar again, I will still think of it as Air Guitar. Whenever I thought about Everest in the last couple years, I thought about that guy who rode his bike there and back. Now I will remember his name. When Marvin died in the Black Ice couliour 20 years ago, some of us piled some rocks at the top of an out of the way route he had put up in Kootenai canyon. The last time I was there, it was too. If I die climbing, all I ask is that you don't go out of your way to spit on my grave. Most likely I will die of old age in a soft bed with Dark Side of the Moon playing one more time.... I wish you all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Bug: Most likely I will die of old age in a soft bed with Dark Side of the Moon playing one more time.... I wish you all the same. Here's to a long life The thought of a noble death in the mountains long ago lost its appeal for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman_Clyde Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Erden, if you're counting, here's my vote: Don't rename the route. The relative confusion it would create, the controversy over which name to use in any future guides to the area, would not convey the honor and respect to Göran (hey, the copy and paste thing worked!) that you (we) are trying to put across. Although I think your personal use of a different name is honorable, and if enough people agree with you, then the new name will catch on. Carve the memorial at the base of the climb. Sure it's a little scary. It ought to be. Some of you sportos must also have climbed Rainier, or other peaks with history of numerous fatalities, and been aware that X number of people have died on the same route you are now climbing. In my opinion it's better to know than to be in a state of denial. I didn't know Göran, but I think he'd want us to keep climbing, keep enjoying life; accommodate the fear, and see if we can put it into context so we enjoy our own lives all the more with the time we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Renaming the route is a terrible idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I have seen memorials elsewhere as well. Lundin, in particular, comes to mind, with two plaques near the summit commemorating two different individuals who died there. I have witnessed firsthand the spookiness some people feel about such plaques at the site of death, and so have mixed feelings about it, though I am inclined to accept it. So, I agree with the memorial idea for both Bill Robins and Göran Kropp. (I have figured out the umlout -- on a Mac, first type option u, the type the letter that needs the umlout; the letter will then appear with the umlout). I would accept locating such memorials wherever people felt them to be most appropriate. The base of Air Guitar may be that place, but the memorial will be more accessible to more people near the parking area. In any event, I am more partial to a bronze plaque or some such mounted on the rock over carving into the rock. As for renaming the route, I would cast my vote against. I favor the idea others have expressed to name a new route in Göran’s honor (and why not one for Robin’s as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erden Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by DavidW: Not to fan any flames here........ I offered to help erden carve but am willing to stand down in deference to prevailing opinion. Good man... let all speak, we will go from there. I ask that all go see the lettering under Air Guitar before casting their vote... the vote will be to enhance the letters or not. Nothing more. Erden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.