foraker Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'd love to see some examples where 1) ID proved a positive statement about itself 2) ID proved a negative statement about itself As a further restriction, said 'proof' is not allowed to use a statement akin to 'This is true because evolution theory has not explained it' This is science by assertion and is, basically, the 'adult' equivalent of the familiar playground taunt "I'm right and you're wrong, so there" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 If design is intelligent why are there so many extinct species? Sounds like spectacularly UNintelligent design to me. Damn creator can't even design a snaffle that will last 50 million years.. most effective designs to date have been dragonflies, cockroaches, and ceolocanth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Creationists do not equal Christians. I am trying to understand the reason you are grappling with this concept. It eludes me. In theory Creationism != Christianity. In theory. In practice every group pushing creationism in the US is Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Creationists do not equal Christians. I am trying to understand the reason you are grappling with this concept. It eludes me. In theory Creationism != Christianity. In theory. In practice every group pushing creationism in the US is Christian. I would not be surprised if Islamic beliefs are creationist, and, that given time (and a growing Muslim population in the US), these beliefs will become more and more visible. Perhaps this has occurred elsewhere already (i.e. Europe)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Answer my question Dru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Answer my question Dru. I have answered all your questions. Your failure to understand my answer reveals your own limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Answer my question Dru. I have answered all your questions. Your failure to understand my answer reveals your own limitations. You changed the subject by posing another question. That is not an acceptable response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your elitist pseudo-intellectual attitude may impress your buddies here, but I am not buying it. Answer the question and quit being a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I think that's the point. Religion is based on faith, not logic. Science is based on fact and logic. Creationism is not science, it is religion, and has no place in the teaching of science. I teacher friend left her job in a small town outside Wenatchee because she was forced to stop teaching evolution. WTF? 1) Creationism is not = to Christianity. 2) Science does not = Evolution. 3) There is no inherent lack of compatibility between Christianity and Evolution. You are entirely misinformed if you feel this is the case. Since you are a scinetist, I would figure you would research befoer making statments about which you know nothing. Hmmm. I didn't mention Christianity did I? And here's a flash - evolution is based on science. Creationism is based on faith. I didn't say that there was any incompatability between Christianity and evolution. But there is incompatability between Creationism (which is a religious construct) and evolution (which is a scientific construct) Evolution is likely the most widely accepted "theory" among scientists. I'd suggest you take a look at last month's National Geographic for a layman's article by David Quamman titled "Was Darwin Wrong". It lays out the facts and falicies pretty well. Bottom line: Nothing wrong with faith, just don't try and disguise it as science and keep it outta the classroom. Books you might wanna check: In defense of evolution - Berra, National Academy of Science: Science and Creationism, and Ever Since Darwin by Stephen J. Gould. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Creationists do not equal Christians. I am trying to understand the reason you are grappling with this concept. It eludes me. In theory Creationism != Christianity. In theory. In practice every group pushing creationism in the US is Christian. I would not be surprised if Islamic beliefs are creationist, and, that given time (and a growing Muslim population in the US), these beliefs will become more and more visible. Perhaps this has occurred elsewhere already (i.e. Europe)? The conserrvative Islamists have differing concerns than attempting to get evolution out of high school biology, even in Europe. Even in Saudi Arabia it seems that teachers are required to teach Darwin even if they do not personally agree: The role of the teacher echoes Saudi society's conservative nature. When teaching, professors have to watch what they are saying to both male and female students. They cannot always say what they want to say; they have to say what should be said. An example is a male anthropology professor's class discussion with his male students on Darwin's theory of evolution and the missing link, “ ‘I had to explain what Darwin thought but at the same time say, ‘as Muslims we don't agree with that, but I have to teach you about Darwin so you're aware of what he said,' ” (Del Castillo, 2003). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your elitist pseudo-intellectual attitude may impress your buddies here, but I am not buying it. Answer the question and quit being a bitch. Damn Scott, how do you really feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bDubyaH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 scott, back a page you pulled something i stated into a question for dru. is this what you are referring to or am i just lost in bogged down cyber space? either way i am guessing that you are intelligent enough to know that creationism is some silly ass shit that shouldn't usurp evolution, since it has no scientific backing. if not, then i laugh mercilessly at you...cause that's the kind of ass i am cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I laugh at Scott all the time anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 You guys have th listening comprehension of fetal-alcohol 3 year olds. I never stated that I believed in creationism. In fact, I implied the opposite. I asked drue a specific question at the end of the last page. He knows what I am talking about and that he is avoiding it. He would rather disturb shit than learn something new from someone that doesn't have an IQ that is in excess of his weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your elitist pseudo-intellectual attitude may impress your buddies here, but I am not buying it. Answer the question and quit being a bitch. Damn Scott, how do you really feel? po russki? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your elitist pseudo-intellectual attitude may impress your buddies here, but I am not buying it. Answer the question and quit being a bitch. Answer the question asked of you Harpell (you've dodged them so far). Name one major non-Christian group lobbying schools to teach Creationism. Explain the false dichotomy between religion and science. Quit ducking (like every other argument you've ever had on cc) and answer poseur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I laugh at Scott all the time anyways for being such a genius, you are sure having a difficult time answering the question of a young american redneck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bDubyaH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 have to agree with dru here. i know plenty of christians who are not creationists, but have yet to meet a single creationist who does not see themselves as a good christian. No-one was arguing this. What would this prove anyways? Answer this then. Why were you jumping on this when no-one claimed it. Also, what would this prove? scott, this question is in reference to a comment i made. and to be quite honest i don't understand the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 You come off more as a spoiled college kid playing pretend redneck than as a true redneck on this board. Dunno if it's true, but it is truly entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I pay for my own schooling. How does that make me spoiled? I work elbow deep in fish guts 1/2 the day. I live via subsistence 4 months a year. Yep I am spoiled. I work in the most beautiful place on earth and I don't have to work with cubicle jockeys like you. If that is spoiled, sign me up. Have fun in your cubicle Iain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Yet Again Harpell doesn't answer any questions asked of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I wonder why the impression is there then, seeing as you are obviously such a rugged stallion of a man...who apparently spends half the time staring at a computer monitor... Unfortunately I am posting this from a coffee shop so I can't really claim to be a cubicle jockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I am drinking beer at work and so far today have written 20 pages of technical report in addition to god only knows how many posts of spray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 1) Creationism is not = to Christianity. Please provide links to Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, etc. creationists? DBDubya... there is where it is. Obviously Dru is implying that these are interchangeable terms. pointed out that they were not. Then he changed his position to all Crationists are Christians. I still disagree, but would like to know what this would prove. I find it rather funny that you (plural form) are commenting on my English comprehension. So, are you going to answer the question? Or are you going to mire yourselves in the same kind of thinking that you are accusing your opposition of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I wonder why the impression is there then, seeing as you are obviously such a rugged stallion of a man...who apparently spends half the time staring at a computer monitor... Unfortunately I am posting this from a coffee shop so I can't really claim to be a cubicle jockey. Me too considering you have never even met me and you are the one who made the ascertation that I was spoiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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