ChocChick Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I've been reading a couple of books written by women climbers. Part of the theme to these books has been men feeling that women aren't strong enough to climb. Some of the quotes in these books fires me up. Here's one: "The Grepon has disappeared," said Etienne Bruhl, sadly, that evening in Chamonix. "Of course," he admitted, "there are still some rocks standing there, but as a climb it no longer exists. Now that it has been done by two women alone, no self-resepecting man can undertake it. A pity, too, because it used to be a very good climb." Albeit, these books are a little dated. But I must say that I am so glad that most men have changed their view on this. I have lead climbs of all women, mixed men and women and I have been on climbs where I have been the only woman. When it comes to rock climbing, I can't always climb as hard as some of my male climbing partners, but never have I ran into an attitude from any of my partners. I just want to send a blanket "thank you" to all you male climbers out there who treat us women equally. Because when it comes right down to it I am simply a climber. No need to put the word woman in there at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Cheers now get out the ice will ya. It's in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Back in the day.. women themselves were thought of as low second class people.. same as the blacks, the Native Americans, etc.. Now you read comments like that and you cant believe that it was a common opinion.. Yet in the year 2004 we just choose to discriminate against gays.. same story. They’re not good enough for all the same laws you and I enjoy. It’s unheard of to think that. Too bad we just can’t fast-forward to the time where we’ll look back at all the people that voted to discriminate.. including the US President and we’ll shake our heads in disbelief and shame. All people are equal. Once everyone grasps that.. we’ll be on our way to a better world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Unfortunately, there is still a lot of discrimination here against "stupid" people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Being a heterosexual, middle class, white male, I can tell you discrimination is alive and well. My life seems easier than those of my friends who are not in my demographic. Worse yet, I hear what other members of my demographic "confide" to me. It ain't over. Fight on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChick Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Yes, discrimination will probably always exist - if not because of your color, then because of your sex or your sexual preference or your religion and so on and so on. I am just happy that my climbing partners and I can just get away from it, briefly, while climbing. Yeah, like Ken said, let's go climbing! (Preferably ice!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I experienced this just the other day when my $30 oil change ended up costing $200 and was also sold a new starter when all I really needed was a new battery. Do we females really look that stupid?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 It has nothing to do with what you look like. Service writers know from experience that the vast majority of women don't question the work that is done. Next time, do this: Say, "I want you to do this job and nothing else. If you see something that really needs to be done, record it and I'll make an appointment to have it done next week. I want any and all parts you replace so I can examine them." Pick up your car and ask someone who knows cars to look at the system they say needs work. A lot of the time, it will not or the job can safely be deferred quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 well the car wasn't running at the time so I was between a rock and a hard place. Battery tested ok - or so they *assured*me. Lube man said it was "marginal". On the bright side: I now have a new battery *and* a new starter to see me through the winter (as well as rear differential fluid or whatever the hell he said it was). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilo Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I agree with CBS. I've experienced this crap from the oil changers before. They're trained to want to replace all kinds of crap on your car. Example: I didn't have time to change my own oil before a big trip, so I took it to Jiffy Lube. They told me I needed a new fan belt. I had just gotten the fan belt replaced two days before, and I told the guy this. He just mumbled some stuff about cracks in the belt. That car didn't see another shop until the radiator blew 30k miles later. Tell them just to change the oil. If you had a starter/battery problem, Les Schwab is honest about replacing stuff. Just remember that the oil places rarely have real mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChick Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 A long time ago I learned to do my own oil changes and basic car repairs so I didn't have to go through those kind of issues. I was treated really poorly one time when I was younger regarding a car issue that I was having by a pig of an asshole. I got mad and learned to do this kinda stuff on my own. It cracks me up to see the neighborhood guys gawk when I am doing my own car maintanence. It's probably not very sexy for the guys to see a woman with greasy hands, but the independence feels great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo_Montalban Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) i had a similar experience at jiffy lube, camilo. usually change oil myself but was running late for a road trip. quoted $20-$25 for the change and then... $35-$45 for the 'good' oil change. since my car is an older model ('96) i 'really should go with the upgrade'. $35 for an air filter that was marginal, but not critical as he said. he had started to talk me into the oil upgrade, but when he pulled the air filter BS i backed up and went with the cheapest option. they are trained to push the customer and make money; not to properly asses your vehicle. tangled up, for doing your own work! and yes, women with greasy hands are sexy! edit: that sounded so wrong...you know what i'm getting at. Edited November 19, 2004 by Ricardo_Montalban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel_Hutz Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 It's probably not very sexy for the guys to see a woman with greasy hands, but the independence feels great! I'd have to disagree TUIB... independent = sexy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I've been reading a couple of books written by women climbers. Part of the theme to these books has been men feeling that women aren't strong enough to climb. Some of the quotes in these books fires me up. Here's one: "The Grepon has disappeared," said Etienne Bruhl, sadly, that evening in Chamonix. "Of course," he admitted, "there are still some rocks standing there, but as a climb it no longer exists. Now that it has been done by two women alone, no self-resepecting man can undertake it. A pity, too, because it used to be a very good climb." Albeit, these books are a little dated. But I must say that I am so glad that most men have changed their view on this. I have lead climbs of all women, mixed men and women and I have been on climbs where I have been the only woman. When it comes to rock climbing, I can't always climb as hard as some of my male climbing partners, but never have I ran into an attitude from any of my partners. I just want to send a blanket "thank you" to all you male climbers out there who treat us women equally. Because when it comes right down to it I am simply a climber. No need to put the word woman in there at all. Here here. Climbing consists of climbers (except for boulderings and sportwankers of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 A long time ago I learned to do my own oil changes and basic car repairs so I didn't have to go through those kind of issues. I was treated really poorly one time when I was younger regarding a car issue that I was having by a pig of an asshole. I got mad and learned to do this kinda stuff on my own. It cracks me up to see the neighborhood guys gawk when I am doing my own car maintanence. It's probably not very sexy for the guys to see a woman with greasy hands, but the independence feels great! We need more female grease monkeys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macson Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 It's probably not very sexy for the guys to see a woman with greasy hands, but the independence feels great! I'd have to disagree TUIB... independent = sexy. Why else would they be gawking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 just to point out another oppinion, i have never met a man who could not kick my ass. I am small and slight and rather frail. I see no point in competing with men because i am not one nor do i want to be one. I climb for me at my level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 chikz rule. you go girl! i;ll spot u, if you fall, please fall on my face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 This summer i was climbing at exit 38 with a lady friend of mine. i was barely making it up a 5.6 on lead when two young women came hikeing up the trail and parked themselfs on the climb next to us. the first girl lead the pitch, which was rated 5.10b or something like that. I think it is a blast to watch people climb at a level that is above my own, and it is even better if they happen to be nice to look at. I love to climb with my women friend as much if not more than my buddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 just to point out another oppinion, i have never met a man who could not kick my ass. I am small and slight and rather frail. I see no point in competing with men because i am not one nor do i want to be one. I climb for me at my level. Hey muffy. Forgive me for picking apart and/or analyzing what you just said here. SOmething in this statement struck me in a weird way, though. First of all, I agree with your statement about climbing for yourself and not wanting or trying to compete against men. I also believe its not necessary to compete against other women. Climbing is climbing. Get out there, climb with people you enjoy being around, set your own goals and challenge yourself to meet them. I think for most there is a small sense of "competition" (thats not really the word Im looking for, tho) amongst ourselves and between other people. Usually I see it as a healthy kind of competition. its a way to motivate and encourage each other to push harder/reach further. If I ever see it becoming unhealthy thats when I back away (male or female)and start climbing with other folks. The other part of your statement regarding being small and frail...well, it kind of sounded like an excuse for not ever having a chance to be 'as good' or 'kick a guys ass'. I mainly climb with guys who are WAY better than me. I used to say a similar thing..."I dont have the body composition to be as strong/good as them". Then I started climbing occassionally with women climbers who are better than me. Some who are even BETTER than the guys I climb with. What I learned is that women have different strengths. When you climb only with men you dont learn how to use those strengths...you learn how to try and use THEIR strengths. 9 times out of 10 if a woman tries to climb like a man, they are not going to have the same success. So muffy, I offer you two challenges. One, dont sell yourself short because you have always experienced guys to be better than you, or because your size, etc. Two, get yourself out there with other female climbers (whether alone or in a mixed group) who are better than you and/or better climbers than the guys you hang out with. Watch them intently, ask questions, and learn their techniques. Try those two things AND keep the attitude of climbing for yourself and I bet you will see great improvements in your climbing, not just physically, but mentally as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 inspiring words carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 just to point out another oppinion, i have never met a man who could not kick my ass. i think you are in error here, i know you have met mike layton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 RE Michael Layton: Ya Know, some of us "SportWanker" chics are pretty tough. Though I do much more than just SportWanking! You ought to try Sportwanking if you haven't already... Some of those Sportwanking skills might just come in handy someday. Even Lynn Hill sportwanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Dear Sue, As Dru stated, I would probably get my ass kicked by you, or any other girl...especially sportwanking! That said, I will still poke fun of it. In fact, I'm gonna go sportwanking at Smith in about 30 minutes and promise to have every prana clad chica in the place pointing and laughing at me yelling, "take" and "who placed this f%cking bolt here???" Evidence that I am a sportwanker: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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