ice axe as anchor

[Kevin_Matlock]

Any thoughts on using an ice axe as a snow point anchor? I'm talking in the manner you would a picket. So in the event that you are short a picket, could you use an ice axe with relative peace of mind?

 

I recently read a blurb on the web stating that when setting up an anchor for crevasse rescue that using an ice axe won't work.

I understand that it may not be designed for it, but it should be stout enough and if you had the shaft driven in at an angle facing AWAY from the climber, then why shouldn't this work?

[Blake]

it can and does work. Sometimes it is best to bury the axe and use it as a deadman anchor. Refer to "Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills" chapter 16 for all future Mountie-approved-technique questions along this vein.

[Gary_Yngve]

Any thoughts on using an ice axe as a snow point anchor? I'm talking in the manner you would a picket. So in the event that you are short a picket, could you use an ice axe with relative peace of mind?

 

I recently read a blurb on the web stating that when setting up an anchor for crevasse rescue that using an ice axe won't work.

I understand that it may not be designed for it, but it should be stout enough and if you had the shaft driven in at an angle facing AWAY from the climber, then why shouldn't this work?

 

The reason why it works in a crevasse rescue scenario is:

1) the snow is firm

2) you are STANDING on the runner just as it leaves the head of the axe.

 

An axe deadmanned should be planty strong.

 

I generally do not trust axes/tools as anchors otherwise.

[Thinker]

 

I generally do not trust axes/tools as anchors otherwise.

 

They ARE kinda sneaky...always trying to run away when you turn your back on them, and trying to hide under freshly fallen snow.

[johndavidjr]

I am by no means expert on this subject, but in a brush-up session with Canadian guides this summer I was very much struck by something. I should mention Canadian guides pride themselves on a much more rigorous, (multi-year & regimented) training program than U.S. guides, (though I might note the late, great, whatizname from Calgary wrote a short book on snow climbing aboot 20 yrs ago, that is downright weird, but don't take his name in vain north of the 48th)

 

To get to the point: They said in typical summer snow firn, a single axe, buried as deadman, is adequate as anchor. Full stop. There was a little trick they added, such that a simple girth hitch wasn't recommended, but I forget exactly what it was.

 

This is a far cry from Andy Selters' first edition, which advocates three separate anchors, preferably pickets, used as deadmen. (The Canadian guides claimed that flukes are to be avoided in preference to ice axe.)

 

It seems possible that Selters was to some degree reacting against relatively early editions of "Freedom of the Hills" which presumably represented standard wisdom of the time, and which certainly gave inadequate and perhaps wrong advise on snow anchors and crevasse rescue. From my own experience, however, I can say very little at all.

 

I'd be very interested in current, informed-by-experience opinion from south of the 48th.

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[catbirdseat]

FOTH has or had an anchor that used two axes. To make this anchor, dig a Tee trench as though you were making a standard dead man. Girth hitch a sling on to the first axe and plunge it into the bottom of the trench. Then take the second axe and lay it so that the shaft lies horizontal in the trench with the first axe behind it, and the pick turned towards the load over the second axe and the sling under it. Now bury everything with snow and tamp it down well.

[Dr_Crash]

I've built a number of anchors for crevasse rescue using ice axes as a deadman anchor, and hung people and their equipment off them, and they held very well. Cascade concrete snow...

 

drC

[chelle]

this is my favorite example of ice axes as an anchor. definately creative.

 

[jmace]

In that picture they are using the wrist loops as the tie in point, I was under the impression this is not a full strength sling, and it would be better to use the hole in the bottom or top of the axe?

 

I could be wrong though

 

J

[eric8]

for some reason i get the feeling the wrist loops aren't going to be the first thing to fail

[Wauhaukau_Trau]

The best option if you can in a crevasse rescue scenerio would be to use a runner and tie a "Clove Hitch", not a girth hitch (clove hitch eliminates the torsional forces on the ice axe or picket from the fallen climber) near the center of the dead man ice axe. obviously on an ice axe you may want to cheat the runner a bit closer to the head of the axe since that the head has more surface area and greater friction when dragged through snow, and the last thing you want is for it to start slipping or spinning out.

 

Secondly if you have a second anchor the ice axe works much better than a picket (because it has rounded edges) for keeping the rope from digging into the lip of the crevasse, so I usually would try to use a picket as deadman-anchor in a crevasse fall situation, unless tools were all I was carrying.

[ken4ord]

In that picture they are using the wrist loops as the tie in point, I was under the impression this is not a full strength sling, and it would be better to use the hole in the bottom or top of the axe?

 

I could be wrong though

 

J

 

 

Yeah and while we are at it, it doesn't look like that moss is full strength either.

[Dru]

I'd be very interested in current, informed-by-experience opinion from south of the 48th.

--

 

____

 

Bellingham is ours now

[chris]

I'd be very interested in current, informed-by-experience opinion from south of the 48th.

--

 

____

 

Bellingham is ours now

 

Amen to that - we want to have a referendum in the next election to have Whatcom County seceed (sic?) to Canada. Enough of this shit...

[genepires]

Some ice axes are not designed to be used as deadman. I forget the rating used but if you don't notice the weight of the axe on your pack, then it is probably not a good snow anchor. The question is the strength of the shaft. (anyone reply with shaft jokes!)

 

Also, there is a question about appropriate surface area for the type of snow you are trying to build a anchor in. Good luck trying to get a 50 cm tool to work in fluffy powder. (or anything except skiis for that matter) Most ice tools and some ice axes have less surface area than a picket, therefore less snow holds it in place, hence are weaker as a anchor.

 

So like all things in climbing, there is no cut and dry answer to your question on wether a axe is a good anchor or not. You gotta evaluate the strength of the snow and axe and then decide if it is OK.

 

Another note: I think that I would never use a vertically driven axe as part of my crevasse rescue system. (even driven back ones) This is because most rescues happen when the surface snow is soft and weak. In that condition vertically driven pickets and axes are very weak. But strength can still be found by deadmaning whatever you are using for a anchor.

 

Saying that, I feel it totally OK to use two tools in the cascades in summer.

[shadow_man1]

If the ones in the picture where able to hold a fall and the system was shock loaded then the head would break off from the shaft !!!

To use them as a deadman is one thing and so is standing on the head shaft down but to use the pick end into a crack I think the head will break.

Cheers

Edited November 22, 2004 by shadow_man1

[Flatlander1]

I completed an alpine skills course with a Canadian guide this summer in the coast mountains of BC and a single B-rated ice axe with a sling girth-hitched at the balance point of the axe was all we used for crevasse rescue anchors. Just make sure there is a decent angle in the T-slot so the axe doesn't pop and they worked fine. We sometimes backed them up by driving another axe in vertically in front of the horizontal axe between the sling to form a Saxon's cross but that was just for practice. Of course this all depends on the conditions of the snowpack (it was mid-August and extremely dry conditions).

Books usually discuss the safest methods (liability) which is great but it's best to learn from more experienced climbers what really goes on out there, what you have time for, etc. Speed is safety in the mountains and people have froze to death wedged into shallow narrow crevasses. It's your call up there.