Yadda, Yadda

[Cpt.Caveman]

That is the infamous propellor cairn of mount slesse idiot

[mtnrgr]

To answer Thinker's question there was 6 students 2 instructors. Dwayner was very carefull not to monoplize any areas; we climbed during the weekend.

 

The funniest part of the weekend, was when the WAC had Starbucks delievered. I thought that was amazing.

 

I wonder if Pizzahut delivers to Outer Space?

[Bronco]

thank you for the clarification, MOFO!

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bronco:

thank you for the clarification, MOFO!

---

But those peaks aint slesse mofo

[Thinker]

yep, one of our group made the drive to 11worth to pick up some coffee for the group. Mounties Butt is kinda like car camping, you can bring along all the luxuries you could ever want.

[Dwayner]

 

[ 10-06-2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

[Bronco]

But those peaks aint slesse mofo [/QB]

 

MOFO:

 

Mt. Rexford.

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bronco:

---

But those peaks aint slesse mofo

 

MOFO:

 

Mt. Rexford.

 

[/QB]

And what else moron. It's easy when Dru is pumping you with answers biatch Or you can always look on bivydotcom

[Bronco]

I just looked at what is east of Slesse in the red Beckey guide. There is some nice photos of Rexford in there.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Later that same day below from near the same spot.

 

Your response time is getting slower. Try hooked on phonics

 

[Bronco]

I keep wading through the other crap on this thread.

 

Nice pics what is that a disposable camera?

 

I probably wouldnt have gotten it from that picture, there's no morning fog so you can't really tell what direction the sun is shining from

[Cpt.Caveman]

It aint digital eh.

 

Nice walls to climb there eh. No crowds for WAC or Mounties there

[Bronco]

I'd just free solo past them anyway, some guy named Terminal Gravity told me to do it.

[Dru]

Hey Mike Layton!!!

 

Chinese Puzzle Wall (white wall at lower left)is unclimbed!!! So is the ridge that continues from its top to South illusion!!! You better go do em quick !!!

[wrench]

climbing's a pretty popular sport now -- get over it.

 

a few years ago in college, i remember having to wait over an hour to get on the court to play a game of basketball at the uw ima. basketball's popular too. hmmm... a correlation? the situation extends beyond club groups too.

 

a few weeks ago i wanted to climb boschido at vantage and there was a shiny new yellow rope strung up on it. a group of ~8 or so people not affiliated with a club said "it would be a while." i walked by a couple more times throughout the day; rope still there; no one climbing on it. yeah, I was a little miffed, especially cuz my 2 friends from argentina would have loved to get on it. but to the best of my knowledge i got over it rather quickly, especially upon discovering there are other routes at vantage. and, if memory serves correctly, i don't believe i got on this site the next day and bitched and moaned about it.

 

the fact is, in order to adequately teach climbing to students to the point where it is reasonably safe for them, a certain amount of time must be put in. if we had tried to share the upper buttress, what would have happened? we both would have spent a lot of time sitting around waiting for the other group to finish using certain lines.

 

would you rather have a bunch of incompetent, poorly taught students out there putting themselves and everyone around them at risk?

 

after reading your post, doesn't sound like you have any genuine concerns or any productive, constructive thoughts on the situation... it sound more like you just want to BITCH. and you have done a might fine job of it. my one criticism of your bitching though would be that it seems more appropriate and constructive to bitch directly to the wac rather than post your version of events on a public site. classic, melo-dramatic effort by someone looking for attention and desperate for sympathy while trying to be the focal point of a popular debate at the expense of the wac.

[Dru]

I say just bring a boom box and some real loud Puff Daddy. That should clear out everyone who didnt bring earplugs and will let you practice climbing in an alpine gale where you cannot hear your partner yelling off belay.

 

[ 09-24-2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Dru ]

[erden]

It is a fact of life that, while ice climbing, we shatter the ice and drop chunks from above. That is why we set up the belay stance to one side of the line of ascent itself, or lead off at an angle initially to protect our belayer. Chunks in Water Ice climbing are unavoidable.

 

In deciding to get on an ice climb on which there already are climbers, I would try to see whether I would be subjected to chunks of ice flying at me or my belayer. I would try to avoid them by starting 50 feet or so to either side of the other party ahead, taking into account the slope of the terrain that may direct the chunk at an angle toward me.

 

Therefore, I would not be approaching right under the other party on water ice, nor would I be caught at the same belay station with them for the same reason - this works well on large flows like Weeping Wall. Passing the other party is a moot point if I practice safe climbing on water ice and protect myself and my belayer from falling ice.

 

If the approach to the belay station is safe and we do end up at the belay station together on tighter ground, the party ahead of me has the call to let me pass or not, and if it is so unbearable, I would rappel down. This is how you would find me behaving in the mountains and it has worked well for me to join forces with the other parties as well.

 

I am talking about water ice here, and other routes with objective hazards. The example of pulling over after 5 cars trailing does not quite apply in this concext. I understand the courtesy implications, but if every car on the road were spitting rock or ice projectiles at the windshields of following vehicles, and that were a generally accepted fact, that law would be repealed before I could finish typing this sentence. Not to mention the intense road rage that would ensue if anyone tried to pass another without giving them the safe space...

 

That's all,

 

Erden.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah Layton and Peter Puget get up on those. Quit asking and do

[Dwayner]

 

[ 10-06-2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

[Cpt.Caveman]

Not many lines at this crag.

 

[Thinker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dwayner:

I teach a mountaineering class every fall for a select group of fine students. My favored venue of choice for initial instruction on rock in Leavenworth is "Beginner's Buttress" (also called "Mountaineer's" or "Mounties" buttress by the group that often covers it like flies and would probably like to call it their own.) It's a superb beginner's crag with a good number of climbs, cracks for demonstrating gear placement, etc. I usually arrive early to beat the Mountaineer crowds but I never try to take over the area, I do share with other groups who want to climb nearby, and I leave when I'm through.

 

So, I show up with my happy group about 7:30 AM and notice two people up on the crag orchestrating a festoon, draping ropes over the upper and lower buttress. We are barely out of our cars when someone up above yells down, "we have a class!" Well, so what, so did I. We proceded toward the trail where I was quickly greeted by a red-headed interceptor who informed me that the Washington Alpine Club was there today with a class of eight people and that we should find another place to climb. And I informed her that I too had a class, it was a big buttress, and the monopolization of the area was akin to the Mountaineers unsavory tactic. (I recall the time when I showed up one Saturday and the Mountaineers told me that I should go elsewhere because they were climbing there THE ENTIRE WEEKEND. Needless to say, I was there an hour before them on Sunday and they were shocked that someone else was on "their" crag. We did our business and left and it seemed as if 50 Mounties came scrambling out of the bushes before our ropes were even coiled!)

 

The red-headed interceptor told me that maybe I should go to to Roto-Wall or some other venue. Roto-Wall sucks and besides, there is plenty of room for two small groups on this, the best beginner's crag in the area; they were there for the same reason I was. Ironically, she admitted that they too got up early to beat the likes of the Mountaineers. I emphasised the point that monopolizing a crag was inappropriate and she finally offered "to let me have" the lower buttress and she told her buddy to halt the festoon of the lower rock.

 

This monopoly thing is ridiculous. Should I take a small class up to Castle Rock, for example, throw ropes all over the easiest climbs because we might want to climb it sometime during the day and then suggest that maybe you should go climb on Rattlesnake? I heard that the Washington Alpine Club likes to perceive itself as a cooler, less formal, less crowded alternative to the Mountaineers. By the attitude I experienced on Saturday, they could have been one and the same. And by the way...that class of 8 story was a bunch of nonsense...we counted AT LEAST 14 people in their group.

 

I took my students up a climb on the lower buttress, proceeded up the hill way above the WAC's, did more climbing, and went on to Peshastin. There was plenty of room and no interference. The next day, Sunday, we didn't bother going back to Beginner's Buttress...I could imagine these people dropping ropes on the crag at dusk on Saturday night and then camping out on the big ledge midway (I'm sure they're not that desperate, though. I wasn't in the mood for further confrontation and I don't like to have my students driving up and down the canyon looking for unoccupied second-choice areas.

 

So...WAC...you looked well-organized, and it looked like you were having fun....but your attitude was NOT COOL.

You did, however, "share" the rock (albeit after some argument) and it didn't seem to interfere with anything and most importantly, two nice groups of students had a lovely time.

---

Dwayner,

 

I arrived at the top of the lower butt (on the big ledge btwn lower and middle) as our rope was being pulled to make room for you. I missed your exchange with Red but was witness to the rest, i.e. the two groups accomplishing their goals of safely instructing a number of students. So, no, we didn't speak to each other that day, but we likely saw each other.

 

I find it ironic that your whole initial post was written in such an inflamatory style, with the exception of the last two sentences. For having such a 'lovely time' you sure took the liberty to insinuate that we were planning to monopolize the rock for the 'ENTIRE WEEKEND', conjuring up the image of a group monopolizing Castle Rock (which is clearly in a different class than Mounties Butt), and imagining "these people dropping ropes on the crag at dusk on Saturday night and then camping out on the big ledge midway". If that's not inflamatory, I don't know what is.

 

I'm glad you made your points, but please don't pull out the integrity flag now; your integrity suffered irreparably when you included so much inflamatory language and the spurious insuations when you originally made those points.....that's how I see it.

[Thinker]

 

 

[ 09-24-2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

[Thinker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dwayner:

P.S. Forward my responses above to your buddies as well, if you like.

---

not necessary, they're all tuned in to this thread already.

[Thinker]

darned double posts..........

[Dwayner]

 

[ 10-06-2002, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Dwayner ]