RobBob Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Iain has the only level-headed opinion here today. Regardless of who's side you are on, the electorate has spoken with a significant margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Give me a break bitches! You are all paranoid motherfuckers. I will bet each and everyone of you that there will be no draft implemented and that the Patriot Act will save lives without costing freedom. Â Furthermore I think some perspective is in order. So far is the entirety of the Iraqui conflict, a little more than 1000 soldiers have been killed. In 20 minutes, 3,000 Americans were killed and 10,000 more put in jeopardy. I am more than willing to give Georgie some leeway in kicking some ass for a while. I would rather die than become a nation like france who when a terrorist has your citizen, you pull out. At the end of the next 4 years, you will see the fruits of out labours. Â Â Umm...Do not discount the innocent lives of the Iraqi people. I think there were something like 10,000 deaths (estimates by Pentagon) that were the result of American actions. I am not counting former Iraq Military / current terrorist acts. Â Estimates of Iraquis killed by Saddam exceeds 1,000,000 people. Â And the U.S. contributes to the loss.... Â I guess you believe a couple thousand innocent lives killed by the U.S. is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 The war is justified 30 different ways. Perhaps the main reason Bush gave for entry was not valid but there are scores of other reasons. Genocide, Humanitarian Tradgedies, not allowing unfettered UN inspections etc. It is impossible to say that this war in unjustified. Â If those are the "reasons" then we are a country of hypocrites. Â Â Hey ace, your picture is clearly marked 1983. The genocides (at least the main programme) was run between February and September 1988. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 weird double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Germany, Japan Japan? You mean when we sat with our thumb up our ass over the rape of Nanking? Â Germany? Where they marched everyone to camps and we didn't care? Â If genocide's a valid reason why'd nobody care about Rwanda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Puzzling how the Christian morality pulls up short when it comes to war, but turns on full force for a social issue that the Bible condemns no more than any number of other things, not the least of which is turning your back on the poor, loving your neighbor, etc. Maybe people just forget that Jesus wasn't an American nationalist. Â Kurt Vonnegut had a really good point along these lines, referring to the conservative Christian desire to see the Ten Commandments in schools, wondering why none of these people wants to see the Beatitudes or any of a number of more Christian messages propagated, the kind of message that calls for helping and caring for one another. They'd rather stick with authoritarian, fear-based Old Testament takes on God. Â Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Exactly like in Iraq eh? So why are you not trashing World War 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 If genocide's a valid reason why'd nobody care about Rwanda? Â Because chevron doesn't (at this point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 genocide goes on in other countries and we don't do anything about it because they have no oil.  I agree. But no one understands..."The Hawks".  Rumsfeld is part of what Washington insiders call "The Hawks" -- a think tank.  These people were the most notable of the original Hawks: Cheney Rumsfeld George Schultz Paul Wolfowitz  The think tank follows a somewhat modified "dominoe theory" of communism that came out of the Vietnam war which many of the above were somewhat involved in.  They recruited George Bush around 1998 to help their cause to get into power becuase they knew none of them could get voted.  George Bush is just a figurehead to get their foreign policies through. Research it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 The genocides (at least the main programme) was run between February and September 1988. Â So we invaded Iraq in 2002 to stop the genocide that occurred in 1988? Â In 2002 Saddam was in a box, had no WMDs, and had nothing to do with 911. Furthermore, there was not an ongoing massive genocidal campaign against the kurds going on in 2002. The US did NOT step into Iraq to save the Kurds. Â We had economic and political sanctions in addition to military and physical confinement. THERE WAS NO THREAT! We went to war for OTHER REASONS which the administration has never clarified. I believe money and pride were probably the reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 boy that sounds rather familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 The genocides (at least the main programme) was run between February and September 1988. Â So we invaded Iraq in 2002 to stop the genocide that occurred in 1988? Â In 2002 Saddam was in a box, had no WMDs, had nothing to do with 911... in short, he was not a threat. We had economic and political sanctions in addition to military and physical confinement. THERE WAS NO THREAT! We went to war for OTHER REASONS which the administration has never clarified. I believe money and pride were probably the reasons. Â Please tell me how money is the issue. After how many hundreds of billions of dollars you think that money is the issue? Let me tll you what I think the reason is. Iraq is in the heart of the middle east. It is just a stepping stone for GWB to clean house on the terrorist supporting nations. Saying it is for money or cheap oil is profoundly ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Zero on that one. Â No link between Iraq and any terrorist organization has been identified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 True the dominant rational given was not a good one, but you cnnot throw the baby out with the bathwater. Â But your acceptance of the false rationale just throws another equally important baby out with some decidedly dirty bathwater, which is the issue of the President lying to bolster support for the initiation of the war. If any Democrat had stooped to such tactics on any issue (imagine the fallout if it had been a Dem lying to boost school funding), he would have been crucified post haste. It seems black and white, but Bush and Company just changes the story as necessary, and, with a pocketful of plausible other reasons for war, none of which were given when it mattered, sidesteps what should have been a major backlash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Zero on that one. No link between Iraq and any terrorist organization has been identified.  Read you fucking dolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 ... except for the link between us and them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Please tell me how money is the issue. After how many hundreds of billions of dollars you think that money is the issue? Let me tll you what I think the reason is. Iraq is in the heart of the middle east. It is just a stepping stone for GWB to clean house on the terrorist supporting nations. Saying it is for money or cheap oil is profoundly ridiculous. Â The american taxpayer has footed the bill for the war while Haliburton and other american corporations have profited handsomely. This is simple stuff Scott. Wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Before you tell me to flick the spec out of my eye perhaps you should remove the plank out of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 True the dominant rational given was not a good one, but you cnnot throw the baby out with the bathwater. Â But your acceptance of the false rationale just throws another equally important baby out with some decidedly dirty bathwater, which is the issue of the President lying to bolster support for the initiation of the war. If any Democrat had stooped to such tactics on any issue (imagine the fallout if it had been a Dem lying to boost school funding), he would have been crucified post haste. It seems black and white, but Bush and Company just changes the story as necessary, and, with a pocketful of plausible other reasons for war, none of which were given when it mattered, sidesteps what should have been a major backlash. Â Clinton lied about the severity of genocide in Kosovo. 3,000 turned into 100,000 in mass graves overnight but we didn't bat an eyelash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Saying we invaded due to genocide is profoundly ridiculous. Are you now a spokesman for the administration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Please tell me how money is the issue. After how many hundreds of billions of dollars you think that money is the issue? Let me tll you what I think the reason is. Iraq is in the heart of the middle east. It is just a stepping stone for GWB to clean house on the terrorist supporting nations. Saying it is for money or cheap oil is profoundly ridiculous. Â The american taxpayer has footed the bill for the war while Haliburton and other american corporations have profited handsomely. This is simple stuff Scott. Wake up. Â Give me a break. Cheney doesn't even work for Haliburton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Darth Cheney and Emperor Bush will split the profits after they have defeated the rebellion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Iain has the only level-headed opinion here today. Regardless of who's side you are on, the electorate has spoken with a significant margin. Â Sadly, yes. Proof that Americans can be swayed by deception and scare tactics. Proof that Americans can ignore the war, the environment, etc., just because they have a strong viewpoint on a religious issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I thought we were talking about Bush? Why do you infuse Clinton into this? He had nothing to do with Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Quit changing the topic scotty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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