Thrill Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I think they did but since it’s hypothetical it’s really hard to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 you will always find someone that thinks you DON’T belong on the route, but it isn’t true. If you are climbing safely and doing your thing then you belong.. Agreed. Even the slower parties that we may call "bumblies" "belong" on a route just as much as anybody else. The issues here involve how we deal with it when we encounter someone else who is somehow "in our way." About twenty years ago, in Yosemite, I once took a beginning climber up The Nutcracker. Wayne had never been on a real rock climb before, and didn't know how to deal with the gear - so he fumbled a bit. I had climbed the route barefoot just a week before, and I wasn't slow with the leading, but mever-the-less our combined speed was less than the party behind us wanted. They never asked to pass, but accosted me in the parking lot of the Yosemite Lodge that evening. When I pointed out that they had not even bothered to ask if they could pass, they replied that I had no right to take a beginner up that climb in the first place. I said that Wayne and I had just as much of a right to be on that climb as they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Didn't Ed Webster free solo the scenic cruise in 1979 so basically he wan't training, because he didn't place gear or carry a #11 hex Actually, maybe he did carry a #11 hex so he could bludgeon people as he passed just for shits and grins. ahh, good NO, as I understand it - the late Earl Wiggans, showed up to do the 2nd ascent of Ed Websters variation as a FREE SOLO! Which would have been friggan amazing for the day and age. The Black Canyon still inspires terror. Except Earl gets off route and FREE SOLO, does what is today a 10D variation. Earl didn't have to pass anyone as I understand it. (trying to make it relavant to the thread). And now, back to our regularly scheduled arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 LOL ... you guys are great. keep it up. (come on.. you have at least wanted to bonk someone with your #11 hex, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 decision he fawked up their chances at making good time. . You may believe you have the right to pass.. but you may also come up on someone that doesn’t believe you have the right. You’ll have to make a decision then. just like Grandpa on HWY 101 as long as he has a license and insurance he has the right to be there and if that yellow line is solid I have to follow at his pace.. period. If I break the law and get into road rage.. then that is my own fault. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you make a decision to pass me without asking or ignore if I said no, then you must live with my reaction. Regardless if you have alpine experience, have climbed the nose 5 times in a day, or wiped your ass on the Alps. haha, you see in europe you have to move to the side, even on secondary road to let the faster car go by. it's the law! in the good old us of a u are supposed to move if there is 6 vehicles behind you- a rule completly ignored (how many fucking times did i find myslef blowing my gasket stuck behind some assclown going 35miles below speed limmit?). more road rules: on freeways if you are on the left lane and you get rear ended it's your fault! left lane is for passing only, so if someone slammed into your trunk it's beacuse you should not be there in the first place. this whole thing is spray (like most of the topics here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 thanks Bob.. that is interesting and funny too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 why do u find it funny? i think it's quite logical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Muffys .02$ I think in the same situation (following Karate crack) I would ahve been a bit miffed if someone would have started climbing under me. I would have gotten tense and scared that i was going to fall on them and hurt them (because i do fall) I would have felt rushed and totaly bummed out about the experience. but agian it depends on how the situation is handeld. when i am at smith i generaly end up talking to and climbing wiht the partys arround me. the last few times badvoodoo and i were there we ended up sharing ropes with some cool people that we ment at the crag. so if someone were to wait til i were at a good stance and yell up something about not rushing me, but wanting to bet started i would be oaky. last time i checked Karate crack is a single pich climb. I think it is uncool to follow that close on a single pitch. Multi pitch is a diffrent story. pass away, climb threw, what ever works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyclimb Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Thanks for the correction bill, that is one hell of a story. Obviously mister Wiggins thought it was a scenic cruise. The point: everyone has their own threshold and opinion on what is socially tolerable. With the increase in population and our sport, we will continue to face social overcrowding problems such as: NOISE VIOLATIONS, and INVASION OF SPACE. Our biggest concern should be addressing these issues correctly so we don't negatively effect management practices over the resources we love. Both of these recent incidents at Smith seem to show exceptional patients on the part of the afflicted. to handeling the situation for all our benifit to Earl Wiggins going where others had never been before....even if it wasn't training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Thrill threatened to hit someone with #11 hex. Thats a threat of physical violence. Ban him! Like Cpt. Caveman was banned! Just because you got up at 3 in the AM does not mean you can't be passed by fast party got up at noon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Just because you got up at 3 in the AM does not mean you can't be passed by fast party got up at noon. I'm sure we would agree there Dru, especially so on Karate crack, which is what? 60-65 feet long or something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatboy Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 Interesting how this thread has become all about passing other climbers, which has little to do with the original post (waiting for, and then climbing behind other climbers on a 1 pitch route and offending them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.rose Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Alot depends on communication in this sort of situation, for instance had you been following me up Karate crack I quite often continue up the Pea Pod cave as a second pitch so another party showing up at the belay in the cave would not be great. My personal feeling would be that you jumped the gun a little bit. Did she have any validity in trying to pin her lack of technique on your wife starting up the climb before she was finished, absolutely not. Karate crack is pretty high profile you had best expect an audience and be indifferent about anything they might be thinking or saying about you lest you lose your concentration and take the whip. This is one of my favorite pitches in the main area at Smith usually the problem is clearing a belay space thru the newbies queing up for Cinnimon slab as opposed to crowding on the climb itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assparrot Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Probably the previous second saw the wife leading and suddenly felt inferior (justifiably,)... Are you saying that it is justified for her to feel bad (aka. SHOULD) because another woman was leading and she was struggling just following the climb. I guess I understand how/why she might feel bad...but SHOULD she feel bad because a person of the same sex is more advanced than her? Would that sentence be written the same if the gender roles were reversed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Are you saying that it is justified for her to feel bad (aka. SHOULD) because another woman was leading and she was struggling just following the climb. I guess I understand how/why she might feel bad...but SHOULD she feel bad because a person of the same sex is more advanced than her? Would that sentence be written the same if the gender roles were reversed? Welcome back Greg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogen Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Probably the previous second saw the wife leading and suddenly felt inferior (justifiably,)... Are you saying that it is justified for her to feel bad (aka. SHOULD) because another woman was leading and she was struggling just following the climb. I guess I understand how/why she might feel bad...but SHOULD she feel bad because a person of the same sex is more advanced than her? Would that sentence be written the same if the gender roles were reversed? No, that's not what I am saying at all. I wouldn't dis her for her climbing ability, nor do I think lesser climbers of either gender should have to move aside for better climbers in any circumstance. I'm just saying the woman sounds like she deserves her inferiority complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_of_The_Snaffle Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Learn to climb 5.12 cracks and you won't have this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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