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kurthicks

Infinite Bliss -this Sat, Sept 25

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apparently the FS is all up in arms about the extent of the bolting in wilderness. my guess is that they don't think sport climbing belongs in the backcountry.

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yes, or perhaps they are just obligated to enforce the law which states no motorized power use in a designated Wilderness area.

 

If the bolts had been placed with a hand drill there would be no issue.

 

They are apparently also upset about the trail that was illegaly built to access the climb.

 

This route and other routes like it across the country put our (the climbing communities) relationship with land managers, and ultimately our future acces at risk. How does this make you feel? Was putting up this route in the manner it was done a public service, or a selfish act?

 

This route is a blatant violation of well know and for the most part well respected Wilderness policies. By climbing it you indirectly support this action.

 

The route deserves to be erased. Which I hope will recieve as much attention (ie. publication in the mags) as the creation of the route.

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Are you recommending that the bolts get removed and then replaced on lead by hand drill Lamebone?

 

Would it not be better to say "YES, SORRY, IT WAS ORIGANLLY REPORTED INCORRECTLY - THESE SNEAKY BOLTS WERE IN FACT PLACED BY HAND"?

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and then replaced on lead by hand drill

 

You can rap bolt legally with a hand drill in wilderness.

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Lambone, have you heard the argument how the route is not in wilderness according to the USGS maps? As far as I've heard, the routesetters consulted the USGS maps to see where the boundaries lay, but it turned out that the official wilderness boundaries are different from what's on the USGS maps.

 

Personally, I'd be all for stripping the bolts from Garfield if they'd also boot the snowmobilers off Baker and St Helens.

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Are you recommending that the bolts get removed and then replaced on lead by hand drill Lamebone?

 

Would it not be better to say "YES, SORRY, IT WAS ORIGANLLY REPORTED INCORRECTLY - THESE SNEAKY BOLTS WERE IN FACT PLACED BY HAND"?

 

I'm not recomending anything other then Power Drilled bolts be chopped. If you wanna redo them with a hand drill...go ahead.

 

I didn't say i was going to chop them, but i would smile if they were chopped.

 

I was told through this web site at some point a few months back that they were power drilled. Are you saying they were hand drilled? I find it hard to believe that a 23 pitch sport climb with 3/8" bolts in Granite was drilled by hand.

 

Doesn't the guy who put the route up post here? If he did it by hand why doesn't he come out and say so? It would be something to brag about....on rappel or not.

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Lambone, have you heard the argument how the route is not in wilderness according to the USGS maps?

 

Yes, it made me laugh.

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Lambone,

 

I think you are over reacting over something that already hundreds of local climbers have climbed and rated as a worthwhile route. It is the most talked about route in our local retail shops over the last year and not due to the controversy but the quality of the route. Do yourself a favor and shut up about it already or at least when you go and chop it, make sure to tell Leland as a gesture that you are taking responsibilities for your actions.

 

Wazzu,

 

There is not going to be any chopping by the Forest Service or any other agency. It is merely speculation and rumor.

 

Have fun out there! It is quite an adventure from what I hear!

 

thumbs_up.gif

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hahah Crackbolter....! I don't doubt that it is or has been the hot topic at Feathered Friends. You think that is going to change my opinion about it? Since you say "shops" what does Jim Nelson think about it? I have a hard time believing he is at his shop talking about what a "worthwhile" route it is.

 

as long as it keeps coming up on this web site I will keep highlighting the fact that the route is illegal and a disgrace to the climbing community.

 

You got a problem with that you can come on over and lick my lily white ass, bring this Leland guy with you.

 

How can you honestly be proud of a route that sets the standard for long sport climbs that was put up illegaly on rappel. So you think that if a route is worthwhile it is ok to break laws enforced by land managers? Wow, that is an interesting position to take. I just don't ge it I guess....oh well.

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Does anyone happen to know if the IB FA party is the same entity responsible for the brushing, flagging and installation of unneeded sport-type anchors on the approach and main gullies of the standard Garfield route (which is inside the Wilderness boundary, in case anyone cares). Also would be interested in knowing the party or parties responsible for the flagging of the alternate approach route which ends up at the waterfall area to the west of the main approach. It is annoying to find so much pink tape placed so unnecesarily, not to mention sport anchors (complete with chains) drilled right next to perfectly usable existing anchors.

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On the contrary, I heard the FS wants to chop the route b/c its a stupid, contrived, over-rated gape fest.

 

I heard the FS was going to chop some bolts to see if they can get the route written up in some climbing mag again... "oooh, demo fee revenue is up."

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ditto...disgrace to the route and the first ascensionist.

 

Pisses me off even more considering I spent a bunch of money on equipment and hardware and was gearing up to go replace as many of the bad rivets as I could with rivets (as opposed to 3/8" SS W/hangers)...on lead...and a month before we go Sloan retro's the thing on rappel. doesn't even bother to remove the old bolts and/or try and re-use the holes. The Trip is now officaly a sport wall.

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How can you honestly be proud of a route that sets the standard for long sport climbs that was put up illegaly on rappel. So you think that if a route is worthwhile it is ok to break laws enforced by land managers? Wow, that is an interesting position to take. I just don't ge it I guess....oh well.

 

Because it makes people happy when they climb it. For the most part, I don't see anything wrong with Leland's style of establishment. As far as some ethic of style, I could care less as long as it is fun. Your bolt ethics are as purist as a "dryfly"fisherman. Just like many other climbers, you are a voice without leadership Lambone. If you were setting a standard by which people live by (think Jim Nelson) it would be a bigger voice but you blend into the complete bullshit that the majority of the regular posters spew.

 

Cheers, bigdrink.gif

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Dear Crackbolter...

 

I agree that fun routes that make you happy are a good thing, i'm not arguing with you on that front.....a big "LIKE, DUH!" right there...I really hope you have some better justification then that.

 

I would argure that my ethics are not as pure as a "dryfly" fisherman. I like sport climbing, I like good solid bolts...I don't object to bolts drilled on Rappel as long as they are well thought out and placed with discression.

 

However, I draw the line when it comes to a few topics-

 

1. Retrobolting a route that is not in accordince with the orginal style and character of the route. Including additional holes not included on the FA, as well as using comparable equipment as the FA. By this I mean, rivets should replce rivets...not fat 3/8 SS w hangers. I'm not saying old leeper hangers should be replaced with the same thing.

 

2. I feel climbers are obliged to repect the rules and laws set forth by the according land management agency or land owner. For reasons that are obvious to me, yet apparently not so obvious or important to other people.

 

Infinite Bliss breaks my second example, pretty blatently. by argeeing with the style in which it was put up you are saying it is ok to bolt with power drills in the wilderness. That's fine, just call a duck a duck.

 

Appearently since I'm not some famous big name climber or leader in the PNW climbing community, in your eyes this makes my voice as worthless as "spew." This is too bad, cause I think alot of regular no name guys who post on this web site have alot of important things to say. Yeah, I'm just joe average climber, never done anything exceptional, probly will wallow in mediorocrity for the rest of my climbing days. But I will always beleive in certain ethics, including tradtional climbing ethics, and wilderness ethics. And I will never be afraid to voice my opinion...to anyone.

 

People who plan to go climb this route should at least know the whole story behind it so thay can make an educated decision on whether or not they want to support this current trend in the climbing culture.

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Lambone,

I think you are over reacting over something that already hundreds of local climbers have climbed and rated as a worthwhile route. A bunch of folks climbing it and liking it doesn't make it any less bogus or illegal. It is the most talked about route in our local retail shops over the last year and not due to the controversy but the quality of the route.

 

I doubt if "hundreds" of climbers have been up there, but whatever....a bunch of folks climbing it and liking it doesn't make it any less bogus or illegal.

 

Do yourself a favor and shut up about it already or at least when you go and chop it, make sure to tell Leland as a gesture that you are taking responsibilities for your actions.

 

"Shut up" doesn't enhance your argument.

 

There is not going to be any chopping by the Forest Service or any other agency. It is merely speculation and rumor.

 

There might be. You don't know this. If they don't have it chopped (perhaps ultimately by its "creators"?), then there are actually quite a number of folks who would support its removal.

 

Have fun out there! It is quite an adventure from what I hear!

 

If you climb this "route", be safe, but also do so with the understanding that it is a questionable and controversial route, and by climbing it, you are implicitly endorsing its legitimacy.

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