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yakimuchacho

Bad form/style or accepted technique?

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Good lord you people are uptight!

 

Yammering endlessly about "good style" and "bad" and "wrong and right"!

 

It's like you guys are trying out for the 4th grade play, worrying about impressing Krista Smith and mommy and daddy and if you'll remember your lines and if people will like you tomorrow in class.

 

Sheeit, go out and climb and have fun and quit worrying about sheit like "style", "proper etiquette" and such.

 

I mean really, ask yourselves, why the hell are you climbing in the first place?

 

Go out and rip! Fuck what anyone else thinks about "style".

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Good lord you people are uptight!

 

Yammering endlessly about "good style" and "bad" and "wrong and right"!

 

It's like you guys are trying out for the 4th grade play, worrying about impressing Krista Smith and mommy and daddy and if you'll remember your lines and if people will like you tomorrow in class.

 

Sheeit, go out and climb and have fun and quit worrying about sheit like "style", "proper etiquette" and such.

 

I mean really, ask yourselves, why the hell are you climbing in the first place?

 

Go out and rip! Fuck what anyone else thinks about "style".

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Tell it to 8a.nu, you get more points on your scorecard for climbing in better style boxing_smiley.gif

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It's the climber's job to get to the top of the route by any means necessary. It's the belayer's job to bear witness to this moment. If he pulls on draws and dogs his way up, then the belayer should make fun of him around the next campfire with a beer in hand. They both know they were glad to get off of that mountain before the storm hit and this need not be said. This is the way it has been. This is the way it should be. This is good style.

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My question was really aimed at sport climbing. My gut won't allow me hang on a draw unless I am on a first bolt that is high and I am already feeling gripped and risk injury. I have done this and I walked away knowing that I was in over my head at the end of a long day of climbing and had no business being on that route. Lesson learned, I think? After reading the commentaries, I find that there is really nothing very "sporting" about aiding a bolted climb that has previously been freed.

 

I am not controlled by what other climbers may think of my style, but I do believe that "how" I get to the top dictates the level of satisfaction, stoke, and flow that I experience when I climb.

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Its amazing how this thread makes me think about why I climb. A long time ago i just wanted to climb and didn't care how. Then I started chasing numbers and letters and style became very important. Now I'm just out to have fun again and whether I redpoint or pinkpoint or pusspoint or climb a 5.11 at 5.10b A0 only matters when I'm relating my experience to someone else. I'd rather climb everything without hanging or falling but if I need to aid something I will. There is something to be said for keeping moving and not wasting yourself on one move. But I'm a lot less of a sportclimber these days. I always try to improve my stance a bit before grabbing a draw. Many times I've found no need to with better feet.

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hmmm...

 

hypothetical situation:

 

Suppose the first time you get on a route, it just kicks yer fanny all over the place, i mean you can't even do all the moves...then, suppose you invest a little time and effort, maybe figure out what special info is required, maybe suss out a section that you can just barely barely, i mean by the skin of your teeth, do and only if you execute it flawlessly, then you try and try and try and finally succeed...ahhh that's totally a shitty style, i mean, suuuuuuuure, you were redlined at YOUR physical ability and it took every ounce of will to hang in there and keep chugging towards that far distant rest, but somehow (hypothetically, you pulled it off) you managed to succeed...NOW THAT IS REALLY SHITTY STYLE IN MY BOOK [iNSERT DRIPPING SARCASM HERE]

 

Ok, now, again hypothetically, (cuz we all know that it would be "bad form" to lower your self to this poor style) you actually picked up some specialized technique and skills to apply to a crux that is probably only just a little bit easier, but on a route with much easier climbing to get to...hmmm, you flash the route...because of what you picked up by beating another route into the ground...

 

OK...so that's all hypothetical, now the question is "Is this really a shitty style in the grand scheme of things?" I mean, hell, you just raised your climbing ability for onsight by a little bit...we want to do that, don't we?????

 

Nah not really...we actually want to stay in the land of 5.SUCK+ and never actually get better...BUT, we are exhibiting max style!!!!! So its all good...

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hmmm...

 

hypothetical situation:

 

Suppose the first time you get on a route, it just kicks yer fanny all over the place, i mean you can't even do all the moves...then, suppose you invest a little time and effort, maybe figure out what special info is required, maybe suss out a section that you can just barely barely, i mean by the skin of your teeth, do and only if you execute it flawlessly, then you try and try and try and finally succeed...ahhh that's totally a shitty style, i mean, suuuuuuuure, you were redlined at YOUR physical ability and it took every ounce of will to hang in there and keep chugging towards that far distant rest, but somehow (hypothetically, you pulled it off) you managed to succeed...NOW THAT IS REALLY SHITTY STYLE IN MY BOOK [iNSERT DRIPPING SARCASM HERE]

 

Ok, now, again hypothetically, (cuz we all know that it would be "bad form" to lower your self to this poor style) you actually picked up some specialized technique and skills to apply to a crux that is probably only just a little bit easier, but on a route with much easier climbing to get to...hmmm, you flash the route...because of what you picked up by beating another route into the ground...

 

OK...so that's all hypothetical, now the question is "Is this really a shitty style in the grand scheme of things?" I mean, hell, you just raised your climbing ability for onsight by a little bit...we want to do that, don't we?????

 

Nah not really...we actually want to stay in the land of 5.SUCK+ and never actually get better...BUT, we are exhibiting max style!!!!! So its all good...

 

 

MUFFY SAYS:

 

realy Dru and Rumr are both right. the important thing here is that you call your technique what it is.

 

I have French/Freedom Freed a 5.10 once and it RAWKED. i had so much fun and i learnd and i loved it. BUT AND I WILL SAY IT LOUD BUT i KNOW this does not make me a 5.10 leader.

 

so sure if you can learn and have fun and climb with some hard climbers, avoid injury etc. pull if ya wanna. but if you lay hands on gear, you better damn well be the first person who says it when you talk about your day of climbing. because you suck ( I suck) and don't you forget it.

 

IMHO a "GOOD" climber can lead sport and trad 5.10 consistantly(with out pulling on ANY GEAR), pretty much at any climbing destination. if you can do that you get a "C" grade in muffy's climbing grade book.

 

p.s. aid is it's own kind of climbing. I was talking about "free climbing"

Edited by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

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muff...no one said anything about not calling a spade a spade...don't be going out saying you hiked something onsight when you worked it into the ground...THAT'S BAD FORM/STYLE!!!

 

and what i tell people my grade for my abilities is, is based on a consistent onsight level...and it does vary depending on the type of climbing...

 

 

Edited by RuMR

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whatever...

 

this is a stupid thread...climb how you want...let others climb how they wish too and don't sweat it...

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OK- you're right.

 

It just sucks to realize how much I suck.

 

what's the opposite of chest-beating?

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muff...no one said anything about not calling a spade a spade...don't be going out saying you hiked something onsight when you worked it into the ground...THAT'S BAD FORM/STYLE!!!

 

and what i tell people my grade for my abilities is, is based on a consistent onsight level...and it does vary depending on the type of climbing...

 

i personaly onsight about the same trad and sport.

 

but i like that a persons climbing level is their onsight level. I have been trying to explain this to someone all season, but lacked the words. thanks rudy cool.gif

Edited by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

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