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Lambone

Poll: Would you rat on a Wilderness Power Driller?

Rat on power Driller?  

429 members have voted

  1. 1. Rat on power Driller?

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If you knew somebody was putting up a route in a designated Wilderness with a power drill, would you notify the FS?

 

Just curious...

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I think it would depend on if they were replacing worn anchors, strategically placing bolts, overbolting, who it is, etc.

 

It's not black and white, IMHO

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Would you call the forest service if Gotterdamerung rides his bike to Dutch Miller Gap?

 

Will you call the BLM if someone smokes pot at camp during the Smiffytuffyfest?

 

Do you call the cops when your wife speeds?

 

I think discussion and peer pressure would be far more preferable than tattling to the cops. The fact that things are illegal doesn't stop people from doing them (see the list above) but if all your friends think it's uncool you're much less likely to do it.

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No, it is black and white. They are using a power tool in a wilderness area. Snowmobiling is illegal in wilderness areas under the 1964 wilderness act. Yes, if it's another climber it would be good to give them a chance to cut it out, but in the end they are breaking the law. I think it's a good law too. Some areas are pretty strict about it. Some mountain rescue teams have had to get permission to take in even a wheeled litter before.

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What about using a rescue helicopter in a Wilderness area?

 

To chop bolts? That's a bit of overkill, wouldn't you say?

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It is mandatory to get forest service approval from pretty high up to bring a helicopter into Oregon wilderness, at least. They take it very seriously, particularly in the Mt. Hood area. Areas south of there, not so much (I think they should).

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My previous post made it sound like I would go tattle on someone w/o first talking to them. I'm all for self-governing in the climbing community, but if someone does not comply I think they should be prosecuted. If we are kicking snowmobilers out, we should be kicking motorized climbers out.

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What about Aron Ralston's bionic arm? If it had a motor in it? ( I don't know if it does)

Or a hearing-impaired person with a cochlear implant? Those run off batteries.

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There are exceptions made for wheelchair users in wilderness areas. I would assume this would apply to him.

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Actually I just read the wilderness act again and I can't find anywhere in the text that specifically prohibits motorized activities not related to transport, though there is explicit prohibition of "fixed installations".

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Actually I just read the wilderness act again and I can't find anywhere in the text that specifically prohibits motorized activities not related to transport, though there is explicit prohibition of "fixed installations".

 

This is exactly where the debate should be. IMO the FS chickened out on the "fixed installation" issue by playing the motorized activity card. Now the followup question is Does FS have anyway to grant permission to authorize placing bolts or other permanent fixtures in a Wilderness Area? I have not read the regs so I have no idea.

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I see that in The 'Bone's poll that there is the option of "No - I would not rat on any climber".

 

Everybody seems to be a climber today and no, "it ain't all good" nor are climbers "all good". Just because somebody shares a weird sport with me doesn't mean I have an obligation or some sort of special bond to protect their miserable butts when they're behaving badly. And good chance today, too, that if your gear gets ripped off, it's another "climber". The "brotherhood of the rope" is a vague memory.

 

P.S. Check out the bolt-restrictions in Joshua Tree for a glimpse of the future.

J-Tree Bolting

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Actually I just read the wilderness act again and I can't find anywhere in the text that specifically prohibits motorized activities not related to transport, though there is explicit prohibition of "fixed installations".

 

is climbing up a bolt ladder a form of transport? fruit.gif

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A trail is also a fixed installation....but then again, leave a trail alone without usage and maintenance and within 20 years it will be gone (except Kendall Catwalk section).... Trailhead signs on trees are fixed installations.

 

Get this about motorized usage. Trail maintenance people are NOT allowed to use chainsaws.....but they can use explosives for trail maintenance! Explosives have been used within the past two years by maintenance folk for the Middle Fork Snoqualmie trail to make the trail usable for horses!

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Does explosives include land mines? Maybe you can get some that the weight of a hiker will not set off but the weight of a snowmobile will. cool.gif

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I am surprised about the chainsaws, since special use permits can be given for certain activities (approved scientific research, etc). I'm pretty sure I have seen chainsawed stumps on the PCT going through wilderness areas.

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That's a good point about the wording of the Poll Merv, beause of course we're talking about individuals. It was a long time ago that I lost the simple notion that membership in any subculture automatically makes one an okay person.

 

If you've already had contact with the person doing the bolting, and know there is no chance of agreement, you get nothing but "fuck you, I'll do what I want, and you can't stop me," then what are your options? Calling the cops is better (though maybe not more satisfying) than setting their car on fire. Public embarassment if private negotiation brings no results? That's a possiblity, especially if common sentiment runs counter to the individual's actions.

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I am surprised about the chainsaws, since special use permits can be given for certain activities (approved scientific research, etc). I'm pretty sure I have seen chainsawed stumps on the PCT going through wilderness areas.

 

I am surprised by the chainsaw thing too. Ask the WTA here in Washington. When they do a work trail party, everybody brings these big band saws--sometimes they look to be 6 feet in length. I have asked why bandsaws. Same answer everytime is: "It's in a Wilderness Area and we cannot use chainsaws".

 

Ask Marylou. She is more up on it than I am.

 

However, I will say I believe some backcountry horsemen will use a chainsaw...if nobody knows about it.

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