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Lambone

Poll: Would you rat on a Wilderness Power Driller?

Rat on power Driller?  

429 members have voted

  1. 1. Rat on power Driller?

    • 1275
    • 1275


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ok...so what is my hypocrisy vs. the facts then? I'm not clear on what you are saying...

 

morals are personal aren't they? To me, it would be "morally" wrong to drill in wilderness areas for some line that would wind up stirring up a huge debate and risking closure of access...for you, I'm guessing, its morally wrong because you wish to go to "wilderness" to get away from man made stuff and the last thing YOU want to see is a bolt? That's just a guess...

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Haha ;-)

 

I just think you are quick to bash a hypocrite but use hypocrites for examples in your arguments without articulating why you use them and backing their actions for example.

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just don't climb it...let the invalid route rot in obscurity, there action deserves no attention whatsoever...chopping the bolts for them would be like cleaning up the mess after someone sodomized themselves...i hear their looking for a mop-boy in the alley behind Dick's...if you like that sort of thing..

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.... I know if I had spent a long time climbing in an area in traditional style in accordance with the rules, and some yahoo with a bulldog came along and blasted bolts in a line that I had spent years training for in order to do it ground up by hand ...I'd seriously consider it.

 

yelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gif

 

have you ever done this??? that's what i thought... rolleyes.gif

 

Hey Rumr,

 

Come to think of it, yeah...yes I have. Although not an extremely difficult and X rated free climb that would require someone of your skill and strength to climb...

 

I did spend years training and preparing to do a route on El Capitan and replace old bad bolts with a hand drill. I bought a drill, practiced drilling on choss boulders, even was provided with hardware from the ASCA for the job.

 

Went to do the climb and my partners flaked 4 pitches up the wall so I had to bail.

 

A year later another individual completely retroed the whole route, drilling 3/8" fat bolts with hangers on every ladder. They didn't bother to remove the old bad bolts and attempt to reuse the holes.

 

Only after I climbed the route did I learn that most of the work was done with power and on Rappel. El Cap is designated Wilderness by the way.

 

So yeah, I would say I have done what you are asking.

 

Where'd mattp go by the way? I find it strange that he will not openly discourage using a power drill in a wilderness area. And he is one of the leaders for the Washington Climbers Coalition right?

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"In a real wilderness you can drill and climb however you like because no one is there to care. Antarctica, the Karakoram, Baffin - walls have bolts." - Warren Hollinger

 

Good point on your wilderness interpretation. But in those areas, did people use motorized drills? I am not a big wall climber so I do not know....

 

I guess it is more of a style. Like expedition versus alpine. Sport versus trad. Motorized drilling versus cranking it.

 

People are all over the French Alps. Do they allow bolting there? And if so, what does the climbing community believe about motorized drilling? What's ever happening there (in Europe) is the future here in Washington state with the ever encroaching population....

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double fair enuff...

 

i stand about kneeh-high to a grasshopper...

 

shocked.gif

yelrotflmao.gif

the_finger.gif

 

i'll be in smith weekend after next...lets get on that aberation that heads into the sky...

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The other night I had this terrifying dream about

climbing with a belayer who only believed in socratic beta.

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You are all a bunch of relativists. Is there a single person here who would obey the law just because it is the Law and not just because you happen to agree with it or because you don't feel you can get away with breaking it?

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.... I know if I had spent a long time climbing in an area in traditional style in accordance with the rules, and some yahoo with a bulldog came along and blasted bolts in a line that I had spent years training for in order to do it ground up by hand ...I'd seriously consider it.

 

yelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gif

 

have you ever done this??? that's what i thought... rolleyes.gif

 

Hey Rumr,

 

Come to think of it, yeah...yes I have. Although not an extremely difficult and X rated free climb that would require someone of your skill and strength to climb...

 

I did spend years training and preparing to do a route on El Capitan and replace old bad bolts with a hand drill. I bought a drill, practiced drilling on choss boulders, even was provided with hardware from the ASCA for the job.

 

Went to do the climb and my partners flaked 4 pitches up the wall so I had to bail.

 

A year later another individual completely retroed the whole route, drilling 3/8" fat bolts with hangers on every ladder. They didn't bother to remove the old bad bolts and attempt to reuse the holes.

 

Only after I climbed the route did I learn that most of the work was done with power and on Rappel. El Cap is designated Wilderness by the way.

 

So yeah, I would say I have done what you are asking.

 

Where'd mattp go by the way? I find it strange that he will not openly discourage using a power drill in a wilderness area. And he is one of the leaders for the Washington Climbers Coalition right?

 

I stand corrected,I still think this tread is BS ,It's just pump'n ego and stir'n up $#!T

The bone is trying to make the people that are doing something look bad, when just watdaphuk has he done or is doing?

Even the title to the tread is spray rolleyes.gif

4 pitches yelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gif

wave.gifDick

Edited by richard_noggin

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You are all a bunch of relativists. Is there a single person here who would obey the law just because it is the Law and not just because you happen to agree with it or because you don't feel you can get away with breaking it?

 

No, thank god.

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Exactly. "If there was a Law saying you had to jump out of a plane without a parachute, would you do it"?

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I stand corrected,I still think this tread is BS ,It's just pump'n ego and stir'n up $#!T

The bone is trying to make the people that are doing something look bad, when just watdaphuk has he done or is doing?

Even the title to the tread is spray rolleyes.gif

4 pitches yelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gif

wave.gifDick

 

done or is doing regarding what? of course it's stirring shit up...cause this site is boring as hell otherwise...like watching a glacier recede...what are you doing if not trying to "stir shit up?"

 

If you think I'm trying to make mattp look bad, I'll argue that I'm just asking him questions about his opinions...just like he asked me about how I felt about pirate campers in Yosemite. I suppose he is somehow above being questioned by the people whom he requests support...right? whatever. rolleyes.gif

 

Also, since you think it's funny that we had to bail from p4 (apparently you've NEVER had to bail I guess), I wen't back the next season and sent the route with the same people, their first El Cap route and they did great. Aided with the addition of endless ladders of 3/8" SS bolts with hangers of course. Two sets of bolts to choose from at that, old school and new school.

 

cheers wave.gif

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You are all a bunch of relativists. Is there a single person here who would obey the law just because it is the Law and not just because you happen to agree with it or because you don't feel you can get away with breaking it?

 

I don't believe in power drilling in wilderness. I will not partake in it. If there's something in those two sentences that makes me a relavist that is just fine. But to insult me for it or suggest I am trolling someone because I come in a public forum and discuss the way I view it is not going to get you anywhere. That is the subject here. It's not about other laws it is about this one. You keep polluting the argument for sake of some reason or another. Kind of like when mattp tried to compare it to a couple of ridiculous items for whatever reason..

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You keep polluting the argument for sake of some reason or another. Kind of like when mattp tried to compare it to a couple of ridiculous items for whatever reason..

 

The reason appears to be that he's too chickenshit to admit how he really feels about it here...or takes his orders from powers above him...if there is such a thing.

 

wazzup.gif

 

mattp said:

I have explained why I avoid this discussion to you before, and i believe I've told you too that I have been specifically asked not to discuss this point with you or to discuss it on this board.

yelrotflmao.gifwave.gif I don't remember your explination, but it'd sure be nice if you could share it with the group.

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Well - people always claim that "those against" rap bolting or like items never debate without calling people pussies or making insults.

 

Proved that wrong. It's funny how multiple times I was either accused of that or it was implied that such statements like that were made in the discussion.

 

I do get an impression that some folks are not happy and will not debate until they have a huddle or something like that, in order to agree that one person talks for them or something. Which is unfortunate I suppose.

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I do get an impression that some folks are not happy and will not debate until they have a huddle or something like that, in order to agree that one person talks for them or something. Which is unfortunate I suppose.

 

well put

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mastectomize the mechanized man-tits.

are you drinking again? seriously...what do you feel about your name being in this post? hah!!

 

bolts have their place. just not next to rp cracks or even chimneys.

the bolts on the eface of lexington are joke.

so are many bolts in frenchmans

and the icicle

even in the index area...

we humans are soft pansies and hate to take chances i guess.

but then a rack of draws is so much lighter.......................

i wouldnt tell bigbrother about a wilderness sinner but I may tell the sinner off and also mention it to retrosaurus about the new atrocity.

lance keep your beta locked tight!!

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Yo bone... Food for thought

I believe people should always strive to do climbs in the best style they think possible, but never criticize others for what they choose to do. quote by Tommy Caldwell

 

Discussion is one thing a never ending rant is another

Do something positive , clean up the mess on El Cap

The list of bolt trash is never ending , Try a resume of positive things you have done ,you will command way more respect than for talk'n smack.Those who talk smack and do nothing are part of the problem not part of the solution.

 

Peter Croft just put up a bolted route in an alpine setting in the high sierra ...Airstream...bolts to some are a way of getting out and doing a new and exciting climb, Peter, the old crack master,soloist, rockband.gif He climbs for all the right reasons .He has done something possitive.

...Try it...

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