Lambone Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Link to Story The subject was then cited for violating Wilderness regulations that prohibit the "use or possession of motorized equipment" in a Wilderness Area, a Class B misdemeanor under federal law that is punishable by a fine of up to $5,000 and/or six months in prison... it is not unusual for climbers or other members of the public to "inform" the Forest Service of perceived violations, he added, and in several instances such tips have lead to citations, warnings or other actions against climbers. "We have a pretty good idea about what's going on out there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 It's only a matter of time before it happens here....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Anyone want to get in the office pool on how long (how many more posts) until this thread gets moved to spray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi Billcoe, Probably not too many. The sad thing is people on here are doing the same thing. When I say here I mean on this board and in WA state. Unfortunately it's not always in the best interest of climbers. But the "behind the walls" clan of folks doing it and their followers are "representing the climbing community and it's best interests" right!? - well some might argue they are doing everyone a service and others might argue exactly the opposite. I'd rather go hiking than put in bolts everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 No need to bet. It is up to the people who post in the thread. If it degenerates to spray then it will be moved or deleted entirely...depending on how offensive it becomes. If you all keep the discussion reasonable then it will remain right where it is. I personally find part of the punishment to be very effective. The guy has to research the law and educate the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 If it was in wilderness as governed by the 1964 wilderness act, then right on, bust 'em I say. No power tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 I wonder if the FS made him go clean up his dirty work... Sounds like he pled ignorance...has, what a crock of shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I call bullshit chelle. Good debate and arguments are often offensive. They are passionate. They allow people to express their feelings truthfully. They are no holds barred. If you make it a romper room environment it's just too pc correct for an item like this. It's basically declaring it dead before it can start. I just guess some of you moderators will never get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I like how Beyer admitted he has chopped over 400 bolts in the latest Alpinist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireneo_Funes Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Yeah, seems pretty clear. Don't feel sorry for the guy; sounds like he got off easy. What's the minimum sentence for leaving a big metal box (like an ammo can) on top of a peak? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 No need to bet. It is up to the people who post in the thread. If it degenerates to spray then it will be moved or deleted entirely...depending on how offensive it becomes. If you all keep the discussion reasonable then it will remain right where it is. I personally find part of the punishment to be very effective. The guy has to research the law and educate the public. The problem is that good debate is often offensive and thought provoking in that nature. Are you just too thick headed to realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I call bullshit chelle. Good debate and arguments are often offensive. They are passionate. They allow people to express their feelings truthfully. They are no holds barred. If you make it a romper room environment it's just too pc correct for an item like this. It's basically declaring it dead before it can start. I just guess some of you moderators will never get it. My guess is it will start with someone calling Lambone a 'dick'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 yeah but Beyer is a lazy bolt chopper....doesn't remove bolts, just smashes them and turns them into invaluable trash. He also chops FA bolts that he doesn't agree with. Like WEML http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?m=41985&f=50&b=0 but that's not really what this thread is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 To each his own style. I can't say I agree with him but he has his methods right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MervGriffin Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Another excerpt from the article cited by The'bone: "The climber met with the Wilderness Manager on Aug. 27 and worked out essentially a plea arrangement that included paying a $500 fine and agreeing to work with other members of the local climbing community to help stop the use of motorized drills on routes in Wilderness Areas, said Cimino. The agreement allowed the climber to avoid a court appearance and included no jail time. Also, the climber agreed to write an article or letter to the local media to more fully explain the prohibition against motorized drills in the wilderness. In return, for the climber's "very cooperative" attitude and an agreement to "be proactive" and help prevent others from making the same mistake, the Forest Service agreed not to release the climber's name to the media, Cimino said." I hope a copy of his letter or article is published RIGHT HERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 My guess is it will start with someone calling Lambone a 'dick'. Am I being a "dick" Greg W....? I thought I was just passing on some information. Wether you percieve it as a friendly toast of victory or a friendly warning is up to you.... ...but i really don't think I am being a "dick." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 A "healthy debate" opens minds, it doesn't crack skulls. You also don't have to be verbally offensive in order to have politically incorrect ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Another excerpt from the article cited by The'bone: "The climber met with the Wilderness Manager on Aug. 27 and worked out essentially a plea arrangement that included paying a $500 fine and agreeing to work with other members of the local climbing community to help stop the use of motorized drills on routes in Wilderness Areas, said Cimino. The agreement allowed the climber to avoid a court appearance and included no jail time. Also, the climber agreed to write an article or letter to the local media to more fully explain the prohibition against motorized drills in the wilderness. In return, for the climber's "very cooperative" attitude and an agreement to "be proactive" and help prevent others from making the same mistake, the Forest Service agreed not to release the climber's name to the media, Cimino said." I hope a copy of his letter or article is published RIGHT HERE. note the prohibition is not against bolts...it is against power drills... slamming in a ladder of 1/2" bolts spaced 2 feet apart with big shiny hangers would be perfectly legal as long as it was done with a hand drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Nobody is getting their skull cracked They might get their route chopped though... You don't but some people just dont understand anything but offensive garbage. They don't listen until you resort to those tactics. They are right here moderating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducknut Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 note the prohibition is not against bolts...it is against power drills... slamming in a ladder of 1/2" bolts spaced 2 feet apart with big shiny hangers would be perfectly legal as long as it was done with a hand drill. No it is not, reread the article Dru. The Forest Service decided not to pursue the question of whether or not the bolts are illegal. They avoided that question/fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 who was the climber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 note the prohibition is not against bolts...it is against power drills... slamming in a ladder of 1/2" bolts spaced 2 feet apart with big shiny hangers would be perfectly legal as long as it was done with a hand drill. Yes, allthough they did try to very well ban the use of bolts and all fixed anchors in the Wilderness not long ago. With more Power bolters out there I wouldn't be suprised one bit if they try again. I am not anti-bolt....I am anti-not playing by the rules. Ever have school recess canceled because the school buly picked a fight. It sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 My guess is it will start with someone calling Lambone a 'dick'. Am I being a "dick" Greg W....? I thought I was just passing on some information. Wether you percieve it as a friendly toast of victory or a friendly warning is up to you.... ...but i really don't think I am being a "dick." I'm just saying that's how I think it will start. You're always a dick, Lamb-y; embrace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 These quotes answer some of the above questions/statements... ....the Forest Service agreed not to release the climber's name to the media The Inyo Register is looking forward to receiving the climber's article/letter in a timely manner and will publish the information in prominent fashion. Cimino stressed the offense and citation did not involve the "controversial issue" of installing or replacing fixed climbing anchors in a Wilderness Area. The offense was using the motorized drill, he said. That prohibition applies to virtually everything from mountain bikes and wheeled-carts (mechanized items) to vehicles and motorized drills, Cimino said. Exceptions include cameras, flashlights, cell phones and other "mechanized" equipment that generally cannot be used to harm the environment, he noted. This is kinda funny....it seems the FS guy is not really sure about this... "It was a fluke that we caught him..." and "We have a pretty good idea about what's going on out there." huh? which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 This is kinda funny....it seems the FS guy is not really sure about this... Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It was a fluke that we caught him..." and "We have a pretty good idea about what's going on out there." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- huh? which is it? I read that as, they have four officers and tons of forest, so they are spread pretty thin; they must not have been tipped off and simply been in the right place at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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