Lambone Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 The Bush administration has released that it plans to double the amount of snowmobiles alowed in YNP. detail: http://ga1.org/campaign/yellowstone2/explanation advocacy mail in: http://ga1.org/campaign/yellowstone2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 View opinions on the flip side on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 the argument is pretty simple, snowmobilers will be happy but it is ultimately bad for the park ecosystem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 What else can one say? The Bush Administration doesn't give a shit what scientists, Park employees or the American people think. It listens to those who have money and influence. How would you like it if I put a smudge pot of engine oil in Yosemite and lit it off- no how about thousands of them? That is what each snomobile is to Yellowstone. It sucks big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Yosemite has it's own problems man...but yeah, no shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothing Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 i didn't see the word "double" in that article (did i miss it)? i did see - "the only way to save the park is to ban snowmobiles" - that's funny! why aren't they arguing against automobiles and people in the summer? have you seen that place in the summer? - it's like a downtown circus. the sleds are using the same roads. you could allow 100 times as many sleds in there in the winter and it wouldn't come close to the summer impact. aren't they requiring the sleds to transition to 4 strokes - didn't see that in the article. you're for banning cars in the valley too, right? i don't own a sled or believe they should be allowed in the parks, but i do like to read both sides of the story and make just decisions. this includes the history, as well as the plan to decrease the #'s from previous years ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Each sled puts out at least 1000 times as much pollution as an automobile or snow cat. The phase in of four strokes will take TEN YEARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 "If you're not burning gas, you're not having fun." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badvoodoo Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 "If you're not burning gas, you're not having fun." Which of course must mean that the best snowmobiler is the one burning the most gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 i didn't see the word "double" in that article (did i miss it)? first line in the second link... "The Bush Administration is proposing to allow 720 snowmachines per day into Yellowstone National Park, more than double the number that roared into the park last winter." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducknut Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 A friend who is a biologist at YNP told me that they purchased "gas masks" and hearing protection for the employees at the entrance gates to the Park due to the exhaust and noise from the snow machines. That sounds like a wonderful wilderness experience to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Catbird, you are a little off. A 2- stroke engine emits 15 times more pollution than a standard car. However, in looking at these latest numbers (720 biles/day), using several assumptions and several facts: The park receives on average around 2.9 million people per year. Of these there is the potential for 648,000 snow machines per year to visit the park (3 months at 720 biles/day -it is actually a little longer than 3 months, but it still shows the point). Assuming that there are approx. 3 people per vehicle, (take into account all those tour buses too! And after working there for three years, it is not too far off.) you have around 750,666 cars per year. Factoring in the amount of pollution (15x) you can clearly see that 720 2-stroke snowmobiles per day will cause a great deal more air pollution than cars per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrov Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 now that the assault weapons ban has passed, this can be easily remedied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 (3 months at 720 biles/day -it is actually a little longer than 3 months, but it still shows the point). it is actually ALOT longer then three months a year...more like 6. Mid October through Mid March at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 fuck snowmobiles. I met the guys doing the pollution study for the NPS a couple of years ago. It was a team of about 12 scientists if I recall. According to them the pollution but LA on a bad day to shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 fuck snowmobiles. I met the guys doing the pollution study for the NPS a couple of years ago. It was a team of about 12 scientists if I recall. According to them the pollution but LA on a bad day to shame. Given the winter temperature inversion that area gets it wouldn't surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) Catbird, you are a little off. A 2- stroke engine emits 15 times more pollution than a standard car. However, in looking at these latest numbers (720 biles/day), using several assumptions and several facts: The park receives on average around 2.9 million people per year. Of these there is the potential for 648,000 snow machines per year to visit the park (3 months at 720 biles/day -it is actually a little longer than 3 months, but it still shows the point). Assuming that there are approx. 3 people per vehicle, (take into account all those tour buses too! And after working there for three years, it is not too far off.) you have around 750,666 cars per year. Factoring in the amount of pollution (15x) you can clearly see that 720 2-stroke snowmobiles per day will cause a great deal more air pollution than cars per year. Here are the facts. "Based on research by the California Air Resources Board, operating a jet ski with a two-stroke motor for one day produces as much smog-forming pollution as driving a car 100,000 miles." Jet skis and snowmobiles have similar engines. Suppose a day is 8 hours and the snowmobile travels an average of 30 mph. It will have travelled 240 miles. 100,000/240 = ~400 x as much pollution. Sorry, I was off a little. I do think that the snowmobiles have bigger displacement engines than jet skis, so they may indeed put out 1000 times the pollution of a car. This source says 100 times. Edited September 15, 2004 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I will again point out that despite the fact that I hafe had a lot to drink that snowmobiles fucking suck. fuck their drinks, fuck them, fuck their drivers. they fucking ruin shit for everybody eslsed. it's time we start taking some account for that bad shit we are doign to this planet. honestly there are plenty of fun ways to have fun without have ing a bunch of stupid rednecks drive snowmobiles all day. fuck em. fuck em up, fuck em up, go CU!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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