Greg_W Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Please explain to me why diplomacy and sensitivity didn't deliver the 600 victims of the kidnapping/terrorist attack in Russia. Isn't that the key? Talk to them until more 6 year old children collapse from lack of food and water and bleed to death. Stellar plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Knowing the Russians somewhat, I think they probably did try diplomacy. They probably shouted "What do you want?", someone shouted back "We want you to leave our homeland", and the Russians said "No" and started shooting. Of course, the only problem is that whatever special forces they use they tend to be a little less surgical than our own, at least it seems that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducknut Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Greg Someone took your picture at the RNC convention. And I always thought they were being harsh by calling you an insensitive dickhead. Now I can see that you at least are a compassionate, insensitive dickhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 English Article from www.Pravda.ru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrov Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Greg, Please wipe off the screen and restate the question. You seem like a great humanist; probably a member of Amnesty International. Then surely you know that in the Chechnya conflict human rights violations are bilateral. Last time (Afghanistan), our great nation sided with the Muslims. This time, we side with our new capitalist friends, the Russians. It's economy, not ideology. But I'm glad to see you're excited because you think this conflict is about the latter. Now, being a humanist, go worry about Sudan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I notice the UN hasn't really sent any troops to Sudan. Despite people dying in droves, they're trying "sanctions" first. Yay UN! Probably haven't sent any because ours are mostly committed and no one else wants to volunteer because the area lacks anything of economic interest to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Uh, I'm one of those fuckhead liberals and I thought it was obvious that diplomacy and sensitivity go out the window when armed gunmen start shooting your children in the back. Diplomacy and sensitivity are only useful in preventing this kind of incident from happening, i.e., figuring out more productive ways to solve conflicts before they escalate to such levels of perverse violence. Of course, the Russians did try diplomacy before the bombs started going off. I read that they offered the assholes safe passage out of the country, but they refused. What their demands actually were is not clear to me. Would you blindly go in, guns blazing, if someone held a pistol to your cute little dog's head? What if the crazy fucker just wanted a Twinkie? It doesn't hurt to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 It's economy, not ideology. Mabe to you, and possibly everyone else in the world but for me, I find it attrocious that someone would target and murder naked women and children. You may be a callous asshole, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us are not. Are you so paranoid to think that everything in this world has to do with money? If it really does, you are a worthless piece of shit like the other 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people on this earth who do not hold the cards. I choose to believe that people can be good and can do things just because they have honor and decency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Chechen President's Reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Нет, у этих людей нет ничего святого. I totally agree. Wait, I can't read Russian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 English Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Excerpt President Alkhanov. No, these people have no morale, and the world has seen it. We have known this for a long time, and the new terrorist acts committed by these monsters, demonstrate their evil attitude to the humankind. In May 2004 these bandits knew what they were doing when they arranged the explosion at the stadium in Grozny, they were aware that the veterans would come to celebrate the Victory Day with their families, children and grandchildren. This could be done by people who have nothing human left - I have no doubts about it. As for the tragedy in North Ossetia, I have not encountered such a villainous crime towards children before. I have not heard of similar crimes in human history. Remember the words of Russian writer and humanist Fedor Dostoevsky that nothing is worty of a child"s tear. I want to look into the eyes of those Western and Russian journalists who still demonstrate their sympathy to those monsters. Will they dare to justify the bandits now? Today they committed the things which shocked the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 “The majority of patients have bullet wounds in the back,” the sources said. link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Fucking horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Anyone know what the terrorists' demands were? Hostage-taking is such a bad idea... it's just terrible for both sides. I can't imagine any Russian who doesn't want to nuke Grozny now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 harpell - you're not a fuckhead liberal, quit clogging my thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 So what's your solution? Drop a MOAB on the whole bunch and let God sort 'em out? Send Bruce Willis in to save them all? It only takes one pure hero, right? Right makes might, isn't that the Republican gospel according to St. McCain? What the fuck makes you see something partisan in this hideous event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 Here's partisanship: Senator Kerry attacking the President for invading Iraq, yet he voted for the measure in Congress to go in; in fact, that measure passed with massive bi-partisan support. Kerry has partisanized the issue. Besides, Off, no one has used 'fuckhead' lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 So what's your solution? Drop a MOAB on the whole bunch and let God sort 'em out? Send Bruce Willis in to save them all? It only takes one pure hero, right? Right makes might, isn't that the Republican gospel according to St. McCain? What the fuck makes you see something partisan in this hideous event? See thread entitled : Honesty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Besides, Off, no one has used 'fuckhead' lately. Don't make me change your title twice in one day WTF does Kerry have to do with recent events in Russia? And PP, I've looked at that thread, I still don't see how the choice of labels for the kidnappers has much bearing in this event, is anyone in the US media claiming this was justified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrov Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 It's economy, not ideology. Mabe to you, and possibly everyone else in the world but for me, I find it attrocious that someone would target and murder naked women and children. You may be a callous asshole, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us are not. Are you so paranoid to think that everything in this world has to do with money? If it really does, you are a worthless piece of shit like the other 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people on this earth who do not hold the cards. I choose to believe that people can be good and can do things just because they have honor and decency. No, I think you should calm down with the soap-box righteousness. I don't think you got too upset when millions (that's right) millions of people faced death in Sudan. True, I haven't read every post of yours, but I didn't see you hurling your body against the fence outside Ft. Lewis begging for US intervention. My point is, don't take the "I'm a big-chested, deep-feeling humanist" line of defense to explain your anger. You should be aware that you are upset about this conflict because it dovetails nicely with our present Christ-fueled rage for people with dark skin, and that at another time we would have supported the separatist movement because it coincided nicely with our broader political aims. All beer-swilling Americans did; it was seen as a sign of patriotism. Remember the banner "Hey Soviets, get the Puck out of Afghanistan" in the hockey movie "Miracle"? The Afghans were remorseless fighters, as we now know jihad-style fighers to be, but at the time our interests matched theirs. I just want to hear you yell from your soapbox that the Russians haven't committed any human rights abuses of their own, and that you'd enjoy being dominated by them. Try to be more cognizant of events and not so angry, and maybe we'll get somewhere. Taking this incident out of context and beating your chest about it is a little silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I don't think you got too upset when millions (that's right) millions of people faced death in Sudan. True, I haven't read every post of yours, but I didn't see you hurling your body against the fence outside Ft. Lewis begging for US intervention. Do you know why not? Because I didn't live in Sudan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrov Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 do you live in Grozny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 How quasi-enlightened of you, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Perhaps you mean Breslan. Grozny is in Chechnya. I lived in Russia. Even if I didn't live in Breslan, it matters not. Am I not allowed to feel sorrow for those in the World Trade Center because I was from Seattle? I have an affinity for the Russian people and all they have gone through. Punishing them further is not a rational response to any position the the Chechnyans are in. Punish a people who have already had 200 gererations of punishment because you yourselves are tormented? I can't say I would think this would even make sense in your distorted reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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