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The_Inscrutable_Gargoyle

Condition of Ice face on North Ridge of Forbidden?

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The two parts of the ice face were not connected back in early august. Getting onto it looked a little dicey (some rock off a finger of snow) but looked doable. Probably in good icy shape by now

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I hear you Lowell. I was up at Cascade Pass today on the ridge between Mix Up and Tripletts. It is surreal how small the glaciers are right now, all the way from Eldo to the snowfields visible on Sahale and Buckner, to Pelton, Cache, J'Berg, etc. If this keeps up, we simply won't have some of these glaciers for very many more years. Grey alpine ice is primarily what remains, and it is only the end of August.

 

We have a serious global problem on our collective hands.

 

John Sharp

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We have a serious global problem on our collective hands.

 

why? Cause we have had a couple of warm summers?

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It is funny though....

 

The glacier below the north face of Larabee has apparently not retreated or changed shape at all over 30 to 40 years. Compare photo from last year to the 60's era shot in the Beckey guide. Ice is in exactly same spot.

 

Photo from last year here: 4276_pleiades.jpg

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RESIZE YER DANG FOTOS DRU!

 

 

I think it's obvious that this differential dissapearance of ice is dru to canadians sneaking across the border on their marijuana trails and stealing our glaciers.

 

madgo_ron.gif

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given that you can see some gray ice in the lower patch anyways the "difference" probably amounts to less than 3 feet of snow. the Cascades are not seeing nearly the change in snow and ice cover that the Rockies or Columbia mts. are

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given that you can see some gray ice in the lower patch anyways the "difference" probably amounts to less than 3 feet of snow.

 

True. But to me, getting down to bare ice is significant, even if the difference is just a few feet of snow. Dave's picture makes it appear that in 2004 the firn line on Forbidden Peak is around the elevation of the summit. That's sad.

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Well jmace, there sure are a lot of prominent scientists world-wide who think there's more to this than a couple of hot summers. I agree with Lowell that getting down to bare ice, as is the case in so many places now, suggests a large-scale problem. If you've been following what is going on in the Alps, the Tetons, the Andes, etc., you might think there is more to this. I really hope it's not true, but fear that the dire predictions may be accurate. Check out the latest issue of National Geographic -- feature article called "Global Warning." Excellent but terrifying.

 

John Sharp

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I'm not denying a changing climate here, but...

 

After seeing the apparently pitiful condition the glacier on Johanesburg in August (I think there was a thread on cc.com about it too), I compared our pictures to the photo in the green Beckey guide. The Beckey photo has lots more snow on it, but it seemed like the actual ice coverage on the Sill glacier was pretty much the same. Appearances can be deceiving. (Other glaciers on J'berg looked 'less connected' though)

 

The grey ice everywhere just means it was a warm dry year - this year.

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The gray ice is barely even ice, or so I've discovered walking on it the last few weeks. You do need crampons for it, though, when it's steep enough. It is merely the crust of last year's or the year before's snow. That is, all of this year's less-compacted snow has melted away, leaving only the old stuff, which has that gray appearance.

 

Forbidden from Aug. 20 of this year:

106129.jpg

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"I agree with Lowell that getting down to bare ice, as is the case in so many places now, suggests a large-scale problem."

 

A problem for who? Climbers, thats it. I have been following what has been going on with the rest of the world and yes it is sad that our RECREATION activities are being messed with.

 

I just think that because we have had a few years of some warmer weather everyone wants to jump on some global warming doomsday forecast. its much too soon to predict this,we cant even predict this weekends weather right.

 

What happens if this warming trend is normal, this may be the next path the earth goes down, probably better than another ice age. Unfortunatley we dont control this and this is the problem people have, along with change people just cant accept it. You might as well get over it,the earth will change, climate will change,and hopefully humans will be able to adapt quickly enough.

 

If you want something to worry about why not worry about our water supply and how we pollute it, I'm sure no clean water will kill us off way before it gets too warm out, maybe will have to harvest the remaing glaciers just to drink, then for sure no climbing.

 

Just my 0.02

 

J

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J:

 

You just go ahead thinking the way you're thinking. Maybe try doing some reading along the way, however, and see if the experts (which I am not) can persuade you. Again, I suggest you read the latest issue of National Geographic, for starters. Whether it is a normal climactic change that is naturally in fast motion, or one that we are speeding up by our actions and inactions, or both, it is still not good for life here on earth, and I am by no means talking about its impact on climbing alone. I've been doing it for too long to assign climbing such great significance.

 

Juan

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A problem for who? Climbers, thats it. I have been following what has been going on with the rest of the world and yes it is sad that our RECREATION activities are being messed with.

 

Glaciers are like a canary in a coal mine. They are marvelous climatic thermometers. I mean, what could be clearer? The climate warms up, the glaciers shrink; the climate cools down, the glaciers grow. It's natural for climbers, who are more aware of glaciers than the general public, to be aware of climatic trends because of what they see happening to the glaciers. And its not just about recreation. Some of us have kids, you know. The future is not just somebody else's problem.

 

You might as well get over it, the earth will change, climate will change,and hopefully humans will be able to adapt quickly enough.

 

Fair enough. Some of us feel that there is enough science to indicate that the current global warming trend is being accelerated by human factors. It's time to start adapting now, and that includes recognizing that there is a problem and looking for ways to reduce it.

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Juan, first realize I am in no way attacking you or your opinion just having a discussion, im sure you havent taken anything personally.

 

"We have a serious global problem on our collective hands."

 

That statement is what got me going, it seems as though you are declaring yourself an expert and have decided that global warming is caused by humans and needs to be stopped by humans.

 

"Whether it is a normal climactic change that is naturally in fast motion, or one that we are speeding up by our actions and inactions, or both, it is still not good for life here on earth"

 

This is more reasonable, a lot of qeustions need to be answered before we can honestly say we have a serious climactic change that needs to be curbed by humans.

 

J

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Well jmace, there sure are a lot of prominent scientists world-wide who think there's more to this than a couple of hot summers. I agree with Lowell that getting down to bare ice, as is the case in so many places now, suggests a large-scale problem. If you've been following what is going on in the Alps, the Tetons, the Andes, etc., you might think there is more to this. I really hope it's not true, but fear that the dire predictions may be accurate. Check out the latest issue of National Geographic -- feature article called "Global Warning." Excellent but terrifying.

 

John Sharp

 

As a student of Climatology, I have observed that for every scientist that supports the "Scientific Theory" of global warming. Just as many disagree. A "Scientific Theory" isn't just someone making a hunch though. This comes about after years of observing, recording data, coming to an opinion on a matter. Then testing it, and seeing if all adds up. This is a huge matter that is intensly debated & divided by prominent scientists worldwide.

 

I think there is a problem. But I agree with Jmace that there are more pressing issues to "Worry" about. Unless your only worry is climbing snow in August.

 

By the way, that is a great photo AlpineDave

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J:

 

You just go ahead thinking the way you're thinking. Maybe try doing some reading along the way, however, and see if the experts (which I am not) can persuade you. Again, I suggest you read the latest issue of National Geographic, for starters. Whether it is a normal climactic change that is naturally in fast motion, or one that we are speeding up by our actions and inactions, or both, it is still not good for life here on earth, and I am by no means talking about its impact on climbing alone. I've been doing it for too long to assign climbing such great significance.

 

Juan

 

Juan,

 

I think we climbed the NW face of the N. Ridge of Forbidden the same time a half dozen years ago in late August?

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