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GODZILLA: WHY IM HARD

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So Dwayner - what is you opinion of the mighty Godzilla?

 

If Godzilla be 5.9, it's one of the harder ones. It has scared me on more than one occasion...the lieback spooked me once when gear fell out and on another occasion I was lost or runout at the very top and it made me nervous. I rescued a guy off of it once...had to throw him a rope from the top of City Park. Another time, I was standing on the City Park ledge and a wild-eyed terrified bugger on Godzilla lunged for my pack which was hanging off a hook or some such. I warned him that he was going to take a screamer if he grabbed the bag but he got up somehow and was shaking...his buddy couldn't follow him.

I have respect for the giant Japanese radioactive water lizard.

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You're right but if you had more experience placing pro you'd find that 5.10a/b isn't too far off.

 

PP

 

By the way Sexy start posting more. We need an anitdote to the broken record that is being played here now. [big Drink]

 

[ 08-20-2002, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

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I don't know if difficulty, pure "objective" difficulty is something that motivates an individual such as Dwayner. His ethics and motivations were developed when climbing was more of an isolationist's pursuit, especially here in the NW (is Dwayner from here?). Now climbing has become mainstream, thanks in large part to the ease of clipping bolts or the ease of laying a crash pad on the ground (plus, it's fun?).

If anything, I feel sadness when hearing Dwayner's lamentations about the changes in "our" sport. Perhaps if he could develop a little compassion for the human condition, and understand that things do indeed change, he might be able to actually engage in the ENJOYMENT of climbing, climbing in ALL its aspects?

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quote:

Originally posted by Dwayner:

Yup. Tried it. It made me feel cheap and dirty. Really. ... Although sporty people can choose to rehearse moves repeatedly for days, hang off closely-spaced bolts to rest, with the stickiest of shoes, etc., I still have a hard time believing that such antics are equivalent in excellence to leading a trad climb from the bottom up (hopefully without falling) and placing most if not all of one's pro and removing it afterwards, leaving the rock intact for the next contenders. Just my opinion. Tried it, studied it, and found it distasteful.

That's my story.

- Dwayner

How can you be serious talking about sticky rubber contributing to some kind of substandard sport climbing ethic? Wasn't sticky rubber accepted as something that allowed one to ascend harder routes sometime in the 70s? If you're going to kvetch about sport climbers using "the stickiest of rubber" (whaaaaaa!), then you're an anachronism, and a rather up-tight one at that. Do you climb in your old deck shoes or hobnailed boots? Give the Doctor a break, friend.

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quote:

Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

I don't know if difficulty, pure "objective" difficulty is something that motivates an individual such as Dwayner. His ethics and motivations were developed when climbing was more of an isolationist's pursuit, especially here in the NW (is Dwayner from here?). Now climbing has become mainstream, thanks in large part to the ease of clipping bolts or the ease of laying a crash pad on the ground (plus, it's fun?).

If anything, I feel sadness when hearing Dwayner's lamentations about the changes in "our" sport. Perhaps if he could develop a little compassion for the human condition, and understand that things do indeed change, he might be able to actually engage in the ENJOYMENT of climbing, climbing in ALL its aspects?

Good cripes!!! [Eek!] It's Voice-of-Reason round two [big Drink] !

 

Indeed. DFA fondly recalls the first 5.[hard] route he sent, which he did with a gent old enough to be the Doctor's dad. This guy had done Heinous Cling back when it took gear, and plenty of other tradly shit, (and he remembered the advent of sticky rubber) and here he was having a fine time projecting a Smith Rock bolt-o-rama. It was a fine time, and great to see someone who grew up on a whole different kind of climbing out enjoying himself doing the old tug-grunt-and-hang routine.

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BTW, as I seemingly speak out against the sentiments of Dwayner, please note that I do it with compassion for his feelings, ie. I feel his pain. Don't laugh, I say this sincerely. I can tell he is sincere, and he speaks eloquently of his beliefs.

I also think that the disussions will continue (and continue and continue) here and elsewhere, with many public policy decisions yet to be made regarding the use of bolts on public lands.

I also think that the reasoned voice (although at times a bit... ahem... irrational, anachronistic, and reactionary) of Dwayner will contribute greatly to his cause, much to the chagrin of the bolt-dependent climber, for not many on the "other side" of the issue speak with such clarity and wisdom.

Having said that, I think it's about time I headed out the door to clip some bolts on this 130 foot piece of absolutely wretchedly ill sport climbing at the World Wall. It's sick, it's wrong, it absolutely dispossesses me, yet I go back, again and again and again.....Wish me luck!

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Another viewpoint.

 

Sprot climbing and trad climbing are 2 completely different (but related) sports. True, they have some common elements, often share the same name, and many people do both. But, they're still not the same.

 

I liken it to the difference between Canadian football and American football, or the difference between football and futbol.

 

Each sport (sprot and trad) has its fanatics (fans), champions, martyrs, and patrons.

 

IMHO, sprot climbing is much more closely related to gym/competition climbing and trad climbing much more closely related to alpine climbing.

 

So go ahead, spray, denounce, fight over nuances, but don't forget that you're not comparing apples to apples here.

 

If the truth were told, sprot climbing descended from the demons in the abyss who were exiled from the heavens by the LORD in their attempts to climb out of the abyss. Grid bolting, hang dogging, cordless drills, sprot crags, crowds in lycra....doesn't that sound like hell to YOU?

 

Trad climbing, on the other hand, descended from the Greeks in their pious attempts to reach the summit of Mount Olympus to prostrate themselves to the gods and petition them for wisdom and guidance. Alpine meadows, wildflowers, wide open spaces, beautiful views....sounds like heaven to me.

 

(can you tell what my bias is? [laf] )

 

[ 08-20-2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

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And upon reaching the summit of Olympus, Zeus (?) said to them, "why the hell didn't you just clip some bolts on the way up? You can't find wisdom if you're DEAD before you find it!"

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"Doctor"..I apparently didn't make my point clear about the "sticky shoes". The point I was trying to make is that if you change the "rules" and, for example, allow unlimited rehersal, hanging off of gear, etc., then we are all ultimately 5.14 climbers if we choose to spend our lives that way. Yep, even your grandma has big number potential and it might take here a heck of a lot longer than that Sharma-feller, but with enough rehersal, she's crankin' hard!

Similarly, the comment about the sticky shoes was meant to imply that you can theoretically make the shoes ever-more sticky and pretty soon that long featureless slab of 5.13 becomes a no-hands route. It's all relative. Change what's acceptable and the game changes radically. Get my point? I wear sticky shoes and I like them, but I also acknowledge that they allow me to climb things a lot harder than I was able to do with the less-sticky ones. Get my point?

 

Sexy-Coco: "pope" is a climbing buddy of mine. We get along because we share similar views. He be in Yosemite right now with the goal of climbing the NW Face of Half-Dawg.

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Zeus smote many a sketchy pilgrim drilling a bolt ladder up to the heights. Here’s your enlightenment, sport.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dwayner:

Yep, even your grandma has big number potential and it might take here a heck of a lot longer than that Sharma-feller, but with enough rehersal, she's crankin' hard!

or she might do it onsight:

grand wall grandma -

 

[ 08-20-2002, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: fern ]

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"The point I was trying to make is that if you change the "rules" and, for example, allow unlimited rehersal, hanging off of gear, etc., then we are all ultimately 5.14 climbers if we choose to spend our lives that way."

 

Possibly, yes. Similar to an archer practicing day after day the sport he/she loves, or a sprinter running intervals, or a chess player studying moves.

 

Your point, again?

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quote:

Originally posted by Goat Boy:

Zeus smote many a sketchy pilgrim drilling a bolt ladder up to the heights. Here’s your enlightenment, sport.

It's funny how Luddites use the very technologies they decry! [Confused]

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quote:

Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

quote:

Originally posted by Goat Boy:

Zeus smote many a sketchy pilgrim drilling a bolt ladder up to the heights. Here’s your enlightenment, sport.

It's funny how Luddites use the very technologies they decry!
[Confused]
Like the moondance?

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"...you can theoretically make the shoes ever-more sticky and pretty soon that long featureless slab of 5.13 becomes a no-hands route."

 

But the bar gets raised every time! Technology is a product of our mind, our reasoning mind, which is a product of our evolutionary ability to survive. It's not necessarily a bad thing! So what if a 5.13 slab becomes a no-hands route! (Won't happen!) Then we move on to the next challenge! I know, I know, "but climbing is sacred." Well, "I believe in everything, nothing is sacred. I believe in nothing, everything is sacred."

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The Moondance is not a technology, it is an art. Due to its complexities, it may at times seem technologically advanced, yet it is important to always bear in mind the fact that it is an ART.

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quote:

Originally posted by sexual chocolate:

The Moondance is not a technology, it is an art. Due to its complexities, it may at times seem technologically advanced, yet it is important to always bear in mind the fact that it is an ART.

-----

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Yes, yes, I've seen the cheap crass knock-offs inspired by the original, yet knock-offs they will always remain. Nice try.

 

Now where did Dwayner go? We were having such a nice discussion....

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