Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
Guest

GODZILLA: WHY IM HARD

Recommended Posts

Erik,

I agree that the two issues are different. But your global

 

quote:

but if you are getting pissed whilst climbing, maybe you should take a step back and re-evaluate your stance...it is all for fun!!!

does not differentiate the whine of the Red Monk and the whine of the Erik.

 

I'll tell you what Red Monk. You get me up there LEADING something at my limit on a pitch as long as Godilla you might be waiting an hour and half. After which you would be just as pissed as if I was toproping.

 

But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, gangropers SUCK!!! [Mad] Especially the ones that just let their ropes hang there while they eat lunch or something. And especially the ones that refuse or are not receptive to your requests to lead through while their empty rope hangs there. Those guys/gals suck! They piss me off. I have re-evaluated my stance and they still suck!! [Mad]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

chuck, the thing is i am not pissed....when i am pissed i have flames shooting out of my skull and act all pooite as i plot my revenge....that was just day to day verbage.....sometimes it is rough to a blue collar kid from a broken home.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize Damnation Crack has been traditionally rated 5.8....... so has Princely Ambitions, Classic Crack and even Angel Crack. I think these days many people call them all 5.9 however and I tend to agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I WAS DRINKIN BEER WITH TM HERBERT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO DOWN IN T-MEADOWS.....WE BOTH AGREED THAT DAMNATION WAS ONLY 5.8.....HE SAID NEXT TIME HE WAS UP HERE, HE WOULD DO IT AGAIN JUST CUZ.....

 

ON BELAY TM.....!!!!!!

 

TM HERBERT, NOW THERE IS A CLIMBER WE CAN ALL ASPIRE TO BE [big Drink][big Drink][big Drink][big Drink][big Drink][big Drink]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It's frustrating when you can't lead your project because 20 people are waiting in line to toprope it."

 

"I'M FRUSTRATED." boo-hoo! Too dang bad. Sport-climber, meet life. Life, meet sport-climber.

 

NOTICE THE USE OF THE TERM: "YOUR PROJECT".

"hey...you're on MY project. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

ME ME ME ME ME ME MEME ME ME ME ME ME ME

 

And it's really important to me so you'd better get out of the way!!! I'm sooooooooo frustrated!

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

 

I'm going to clip those bolts, hang a bit, swear, comb my hair back, grunt, swear, clip another bolt and so forth (you can watch if you like) and it's really important to me so you'd better get out of the way!!! I'm sooooooooo frustrated!

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

 

"can't we all just get along." - the immortal words of the philosopher-king, Rodney King.

The answer is NO. It's against human nature, but we can tolerate each other which means wait your turn and quit trying to jump the queue!

 

[rockband]

 

P.S. SK...I'm not targeting you in the above...just addressin' the general situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dwayner, thanks for the clarification, cuase you in a bad mood today [Frown] , I almost cried. maybe breakfast seconds are in order, no?

 

peace

love and

understanding

sk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, once again, the alpos slag the sportmonkeys for having any sort of ethical standard by which to coexist. Sorry, old goats, but it's common courtesy and commonly understood that someone who is trying to redpoint (yeah, probably with the draws hanging) their project should be allowed to do so by toproping route-hogs. Why is that so tough to grasp?

 

If you're trying to knock off a route in a day and there are slow-moving gumbies clogging the belays, would you expect them to move out of the way for a faster-moving party? Or would you be content lurking there while they take 20 minutes to figure out how to use a nut tool?

 

Like the concept of redpointing with the draws hanging, it just makes more sense in the sport realm to yield occasionally. It's called "sharing." And just as it's common practice for topropers to give someone who's redpointing a little time, it's common for someone between redpoint burns to let others TR the route while they rest. There are a lot of people trying to climb out there, and there's no point in being a selfish dick and saying "you should have gotten up earlier if you wanted to climb this--better luck tomorrow," when it's just as likely to be you in the same situation the next day.

 

[ 08-20-2002, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Dwayner:

"It's frustrating when you can't lead your project because 20 people are waiting in line to toprope it."

 

"I'M FRUSTRATED." boo-hoo! Too dang bad. Sport-climber, meet life. Life, meet sport-climber.

 

NOTICE THE USE OF THE TERM: "YOUR PROJECT".

"hey...you're on MY project.
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

ME ME ME ME ME ME MEME ME ME ME ME ME ME

 

And it's really important to me so you'd better get out of the way!!! I'm sooooooooo frustrated!

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

 

I'm going to clip those bolts, hang a bit, swear, comb my hair back, grunt, swear, clip another bolt and so forth (you can watch if you like) and it's really important to me so you'd better get out of the way!!! I'm sooooooooo frustrated!

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

 

"can't we all just get along." - the immortal words of the philosopher-king, Rodney King.

The answer is NO. It's against human nature, but we can tolerate each other which means wait your turn and quit trying to jump the queue!

 

[rockband]

 

P.S. SK...I'm not targeting you in the above...just addressin' the general situation.

You know, you're not addressing the general situation, you're dropping the lamest of stereotypes and generalizing up the ass.

 

Yeah, sport climbers are only concerned about their hair and getting noticed by other climbers. Of course! What other mentality could we possibly have if we don't like ten-mile approaches and bivying in our packs? Must be a bunch of posing egomaniacs just hoping to get sponsored, right?

 

After putting several weekends and a lot of work into figuring out how to hang on through 80 feet of at-your-limit sickness, it IS frustrating to have to sit there while someone takes twenty minutes to figure out the first move. Is the frustration that big of a deal? No. Sport climbing is frustrating as fuck, and that's part of the fun; beating your head against the wall to solve improbable sequences and link them all together.

 

But it IS a big deal when someone is monopolizing a route for hours and won't let you take five minutes to redpoint it and move on. Especially since if you were projecting the route for a while, they probably clipped your draws to set up the TR. It's common courtesy.

 

Why is it that you can only see it from the standpoint of sport climber ego? You talk about tolerating each other, and that's a two-way street. Sure, the Doctor hopes that if you're TRing a route he wants to redpoint that you'll break for a few minutes and let him have a go. On the same token, he'd be happy to put your rope back up, switch out his draws for yours, scrub the holds and hang around and help you figure out the crux afterwards too. And, surprise, surprise, what go around come around, and the Doctor will be sure to give you your redpoint burn next time he's toproping something into oblivion.

 

[ 08-20-2002, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit I agree with DFA. And. . . luckily I don't want to usually climb the routes that routehogs take up but if I did I just might pull their rope and get on the route. If they have a fit well then I'll pull some puffed up chest beating shit about how bad ass I am and how they should be kissing my draws. [Wazzup]

 

PS. Godzilla please, your a good climb but no sandbag. [Wazzup][sNAFFLEHOUND]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so flash this fall when i am down going for my repoint on traffic light(oops i mean magic light) and i am working sequences and shit on lead, and one of your friends comes by and has a bit of tude cause i am working his warm up.....can i lower, throttle him for being a selfish wank and then return to my normal hang doggging programming?? you logic does not address this issue...

 

[ 08-20-2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: erik ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by erik:

so flash this fall when i am done giong for my repoint on traffic light(oops i mean magic light) and i am working sequences and shit on lead, and one of your friends comes by and has a bit of tude cause i working his eamr up.....can i lower throttle him for being a selfish wank and then return to my normal hang doggging programming?? you logic does not address this issue...

"Traffic Light" [laf] no shit.

 

You know, most people the Doc knows would definitely yield the route to someone projecting it. DFA was projecting a route a while back that many of the park's resident hardpersons use as a warmup, and no one said "get outta my way, that's my warmup." But the Doctor would finish dogging whatever section he was dogging, then lower off and let someone trot up it like it was 5.6 and be on their way.

 

It's all about the give and take, and it's not just toproping vs. redpointing. The basic premise being that if you're working the shit out of something and someone's going to take five minutes to hop on the route real quick and then be done with it, it's cool to let them do so. Likewise, if ten people want to warm up on a route you're trying to redpoint, it would be cool if they find another route to warm up on, as there are many. It basically comes down to respecting that someone is putting or has put a lot of work into sending a route, and also what makes sense.

 

Obviously if you've been dogging Tragic Light for two hours and a party of two just wants to run up it once to warm up, you should give them a go. But if there's an assload of people lined up to warm up on the thing and you just want to hop on real quick and send it because it's your project, then it would be right good of those folks to wait a few minutes while you give it a go.

 

Makes pretty good sense, no? And hey, you don't even have to pose, spray, or snub anybody to do it!

 

[ 08-20-2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

issue there dfa is that what if i lose my sequence or my phyce after allowing others to warm up on it...what if i spy their beta and lose my classified ascent.....you said it best when you stated there are many warn ups and routes of equal caliber......

 

i still think projecting routes and such is micro managing the sport....but thats your and their deal not mine....i would never wait around in a line to climb a route......that is like "moo...moo...mooo" a bunch of cattle in a herd.....

 

you can certainly be patient and share things such as that....but what is the point...is someone else going to do the same for me???i doubt it......granted i will say most locals(people from the nearby area) are good people, i find it is the people from like seattle vertical world or pdx whatever gym are the people whom need the lesson.......alot of those people enjoy the sit aruond game and give positive vibes to their homies....like whateva climb for yourself....if my friend can do it...good for him.....if he cannot i am sure he tried his hardest.....

 

if i had one complaint it is the self importance other put unto themselves(i am guilty too) really noone that i know cares what another has done...people accomplishments are great, but not at the cost of me personally.....

 

it is fun to watch someone work .14's and shit......but that is all, it doesn't inspire me or make me wish i were better...because i am who i am.....

 

human nature sux.....deal with it.......

 

sorry for the randomness i am nervous for my tommorow!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel realy sad now [Frown] I think you are wrong and I do care and feel joy for others when the succeed and acomplish. I am also often inspired be those that I meet, and people that I know. I think that human conection is one of the most valuble assets that we have. So pm me and tell me why you are nervous [big Grin]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by erik:

sorry for the randomness i am nervous for my tommorow!!!

vasectomy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by erik:

issue there dfa is that what if i lose my sequence or my phyce after allowing others to warm up on it...what if i spy their beta and lose my classified ascent.....you said it best when you stated there are many warn ups and routes of equal caliber......

Well, if you're going to forget the sequence, you're probably pretty far from sending it anyway, no? So losing fifteen minutes and taking a rest probably isn't going to sabotage your redpoint. If you don't want beta, look the other way while they climb.

 

i still think projecting routes and such is micro managing the sport....but thats your and their deal not mine....i would never wait around in a line to climb a route......that is like "moo...moo...mooo" a bunch of cattle in a herd.....

 

The thing with projecting is that if you want to get better, sooner or later you're going to take more than one attempt to do something. And, eventually, you wind up climbing all the routes that are at your current level that you're interested in doing, so the logical progression is to try something harder. And yeah, obviously if you don't like waiting for a route, why do it?

 

you can certainly be patient and share things such as that....but what is the point...is someone else going to do the same for me???i doubt it......granted i will say most locals(people from the nearby area) are good people, i find it is the people from like seattle vertical world or pdx whatever gym are the people whom need the lesson.......alot of those people enjoy the sit aruond game and give positive vibes to their homies....like whateva climb for yourself....if my friend can do it...good for him.....if he cannot i am sure he tried his hardest.....

 

People are always slagging Portland and Seattle gym-goers for being dicks. The thing is, there are maybe one or two people from either joint who are lame, the rest of them are quite cool. If your paths crossed more often, you'd find that out.

 

if i had one complaint it is the self importance other put unto themselves(i am guilty too) really noone that i know cares what another has done...people accomplishments are great, but not at the cost of me personally.....

 

it is fun to watch someone work .14's and shit......but that is all, it doesn't inspire me or make me wish i were better...because i am who i am.....

 

human nature sux.....deal with it.......

 

sorry for the randomness i am nervous for my tommorow!!!

 

Random is right! [Confused] But whatever, climb what you like and have a good time, and don't forget to share.

 

[ 08-20-2002, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Funny thing, I never hear of sport climbers complaining about gear climbers. It’s always gear climbers bitching and moaning about sport climbers. What gives?"

 

What gives? The practice of sport-climbing seems to encourage the reckless placing of numerous bolts. Many trad climbers uphold clean climbing as an ideal. We think you should ideally take your gear with you when you leave. That debate is old, old, old...I'm sure you're familiar with it.

 

"The only thing I hear from sport climbers as "trad" climbers pass by at the crags is chuckles: or laughter at the self righteous idiot in a helmet with all new gear and chaotic mess of slings draped over themselves like a medieval barbarian proclaiming some mantra about bolts this or that...If your so involved that your knocking people for being a sport or a trad climber and not focusing on you and your friends climbing maybe you should see a doctor."

 

Dude! you just knocked trad climbers yourself! And you think the sporties are any better because they might choose not wear a helmet, wear pink spandex tights or their gear is smaller? Huh?

 

"Climbing is supposed to be fun. Or just do something else like play in traffic!"

 

Such a nice young man!

[rockband]

 

[ 08-20-2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Ropegun1999OldSkool...Not good...didn't even get on it!!! Work bellowed loudly about me even going down for the wedding...so I only spent a day and a half there and then turned around and drove home...man I was pissed!!! Got a bit of bouldering in (i know, totally lame) as that was all i had time for...

 

But, I'll be down there in September for two weeks...super stoked...

 

How did your deal go????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious Dwayner...But have you ever gone sport climbing just once, before you ripped it apart? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just curious that's all...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a great "experience" - I trusted some bad beta and my partner was a little creeeped. So we didn't get very far. The free climbing was fantastic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm w/ TimL here...its all good...why classify oneself as a trad or sport climber?

 

No, my friend, some of us don't think "it's all good." Having weighed the choices, we choose are preferences. Nobody is stopping anybody from doing too much. Go be sporty if you choose...but respect the fact that others might think it's lame....go bouldering too! Who cares if Dwayner or other tradmeisters think it's goofy. We ain't keeping you from "sending" that sick 14b sloper-fest!

 

[rockband]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Godzilla - Bow before the 10th/11th? pitch of the Regular Route on Half Dome (Not to mention the short pitch after the Thank God Ledge Traverse!)

 

Damn! Now that Ithink of it those idiots on the FA placed bolts on that route too! Should have waited for real men such as Higbee and Erikson before they bolted that route!

 

PP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't answer my question...have you ever tried it? And don't reply "I didn't inhale"...

 

How do you know what i like? What my ethics are? What my choice of protection is? You don't know me and I don't know you...so please refrain from making a judgement about me...I was only agreeing w/ Tim's statement about it seemed that a lot of people are losing sight of the fact that in general climbing should be fun some of the time...Otherwise, what's the point?????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Just curious Dwayner...But have you ever gone sport climbing just once, before you ripped it apart? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just curious that's all..."

 

Yup. Tried it. It made me feel cheap and dirty. Really. The situation at Vantage is what really turned me off. I had climbed there before it was grid-bolted and now I find the place sad and violated. Same with parts of Smith Rock and elsewhere. The short learning curve of sport-climbing, too, attracts lots of people. I'm glad they're having a good time but I don't like being around the crowds...and some of them folks are dangerous because outside a very limited environment involving bolts, they don't know much about climbing. I don't care for the grid bolts, the crowds, nor the sporty-style of ascent, so I tend to avoid such scenes. Also, I still value my clean-climbing ideals which were in development when I started climbing in the '70's. Although sporty people can choose to rehearse moves repeatedly for days, hang off closely-spaced bolts to rest, with the stickiest of shoes, etc., I still have a hard time believing that such antics are equivalent in excellence to leading a trad climb from the bottom up (hopefully without falling) and placing most if not all of one's pro and removing it afterwards, leaving the rock intact for the next contenders. Just my opinion. Tried it, studied it, and found it distasteful.

That's my story.

- Dwayner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough...you answered my question that your attitude wasn't a "knee-jerk" response...I agree that there is a total difference between clipping bolts (actually just a hanging draw, usually) in a well controlled environment and being blasted, hoping for some kind placement w/o knowing what's coming up...

 

If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain one more time...What do you think of Alan Watt's ascent of the East Face of Monkey face as it was done on preplaced gear, but not permanent gear w/ a fair bit of rehearsal? You can walk up to it now and find it in the same condition as when he first spied the line...no bolts, no nutz, no nothing but the line...How does that fit into your ethics? Or does it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×