Dr_Crash Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 What's up with canister stoves in snow? I've had issues twice trying to melt snow quickly, and don't know if it's because of the canister (last time we were at 10,000 ft, first time at whatever height Bullion basin is at---i.e. same as the base of the Crystal ski area, so I'm not sure cold was an issue then). I also had a pretty small diameter pot, which may have been the issue more than the canister fuel? On paper, my canister stove boils water as fast or nearly as fast as an MSR bottle stove. It's actually rated by MSR as nearly as good as the XGK for high-altitude climbing (it's the Superfly; the light version of it gets the same rating as the XGK), and MSR says it'll boil water faster. In the field, it looks totally different for melting snow. Is it just the smaller diameter pot? drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 This issue has been debated, ad nauseum in numerous other threads, but the general consensus is that canister stoves aren't as good as gasoline stoves for melting snow. The cold reduces the vapor pressure of the liquid in the canister. Higher altitudes improve flow at a given temperature, but usually temperature drops with altitude. Gasoline stoves are pressurized by a pump and thus the pressure (and hence flow) is independent of temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriznitch Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 there are some issues with heat shielding /wind screens as well. DrCrash--what were you using? There are ways to insulate the canister stoves--such as the system that hanging kits utilize. Maybe this would make it more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 you can make an explosive supercharger with a piece of copper wire that goes from the flame and around the canister. if you do it wrong it blows up whilke Google image searching for a pic of this setup i came across this beautiful image follow the URL back for a definition of "What is light and fast alpine climbing?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kioti Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Get some reusable hand warmers (the gel ones that are kind of hard to find any more, they used to make round ones that fit under a canister well.) You don't want to use a wind screen around many canister stoves either. This will cause heat around the canister, but will cause the canister to explode. You may also want to consider what type of fuel you are using. Most propane/butane mixes work with the stove. But some have more propane than butane, and vice-versa. The more propane the hotter it burns. I think MSR has the highest propane content at this time. Companies have to cut the propane, which is the better gas, with butane because propane is too high pressure. They would have to over build canisters and come out looking something like a mini propane tank that you have on your barbeque. Most good store staff will know which canisters work best at altitude. If not, buy a few of them and see what works best for you. I've had best experiences with the MSR IsoPro though. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 We melted 6+ quarts of water last Friday night at 10,000' in 75 minutes with a Primus Alpine titanium canister stove. That seemed pretty quick to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo_Montalban Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 cold temperatures decrease the pressure of the cannister, which decreases the temperature of the gas, which decreases the pressure of the cannister, which decreases the temperature of the gas, which decreases the pressure of the cannister, which decreases the...yeah yeah yeah they used to make the cannisters a long and narrow shape that was perfect fit for a beer coozy and that helped. i can only find the short fat ones now. next stove i get will be hand pressurized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 cold temperatures decrease the pressure of the cannister, which decreases the temperature of the gas, which decreases the pressure of the cannister, which decreases the temperature of the gas, which decreases the pressure of the cannister, which decreases the...(snip) Yup. Then you burn more fuel, which decreases the pressure of the cannister, which causes you to burn more fuel... The wife and I were out on a winter trip right after we got a cannister stove. It was cold. REALLY cold. I swear we used one whole cannister just for 4 quarts of water from snow and to bring a quart up to a full boil. Actually... don't think we ever got it to a full boil as I remember very cruchy freeze-dried that night. Since then, the hand-pump white gas stove goes wherever there is snow to be melted and it's cold. The cannister goes everywhere else. If I was a newbie starting out again, I'd still want a cannister AND a gas stove. Each shines in it's own environment. -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 My pocket rocket goes everywhere with me in the summer. It saves time, weight, and doesn't spill, stink or make loud noises. When it gets cold, I break out the MSR XGK. It stinks, sounds like a rocket, weighs more, and is just gettin fired up when the canister stove would have a pot half boiled (in warm temps). But I have had enough bad experiences with a cold canister that I will not trust my life to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 You can pretty much just dip the cannister in the hot water that you've melted by the time the pressure drops to get the stove going at full bore once again - and repeat as necessary until you've got all of the hot water that you need. Works like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted August 24, 2004 Author Share Posted August 24, 2004 If I was a newbie starting out again, I'd still want a cannister AND a gas stove. Each shines in it's own environment. What about a combo like the Omnifuel, which burns both kind of fuel? The one clear disadvantage I see in it is that when you're in canister mode it's a very heavy canister stove, though... And even for white gas it's a bit heavier than the MSR stoves. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 ... The one clear disadvantage I see in it is that when you're in canister mode it's a very heavy canister stove, though... And even for white gas it's a bit heavier than the MSR stoves. Yup. And look at the price. Ouch. The Omnifuel idea seems great if you're traveling and want the option to use cannister or liquid, but don't want to pack two stoves with you. If you're just doing overnighters and coming back home, seems like having two different stoves really isn't a drawback. Plus, you don't have to compromise on the weight issue. Just my thoughts... kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadester Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I have also had problems with canister stoves not having enough output. And not just at high altitudes and low temps. I had a canister stove output diminish in the spring time at 5200 feet and 40 degree temps. After prolonged burn time the canister seemed to freeze up and diminish. My solution: Buy a liquid fuel stove. Brunton Optimus Nova I have found to be the ticket. I even take it backpacking in the summer now and leave the canister stove at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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