Dave_Schuldt Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Saw in the paper that they have approval from the Forest Servace to add a gondola and another chair. Construction could start next summer. How much will this raise ticket prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graupel Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Which chair are they supposedly approving? I can't find a newspaper article or press release on Crystal's site that actually says which one.  The Seattle Times is not explicit either: Forest service OKs ski-area expansion By The Associated Press  Crystal Mountain's ski area has won U.S. Forest Service approval for a multimillion-dollar expansion that would add a high-speed chairlift and an aerial tramway to a summit restaurant, according to The Olympian newspaper.  Construction could begin next summer depending on revenues and whether anyone challenges the plan....  I couldn't find it on the Olympian website either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steepconcrete Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 lots of discussion and info here. Â http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 The best part of that discussion was this line: Â "Summer is getting old and tired. The light is turning amber in the evening and occasionally I can feel a cool breath of fall. I'm ready. You?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowell_Skoog Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 The Seattle Times reported yesterday that the USFS has released the Crystal Mountain Final Environmental Impact Statement and Record of Decision. I received a copy of the FEIS/ROD on CDROM today and the information is also available here:  http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs/projects/crystal_eis/  In a nutshell, here's the decision from a skier's viewpoint. Lifts approved:  * Summit tram (base area to summit) * Park 'n Ride chair (Lot B to base area) * Kelly's Gap chair (Lot B to east shoulder of Northway Pk) * Northway chair (top of Lower Northway to Northway Peak) * Bullion Basin chair (same location as former chair, I think) * Two new surface tows (near base)  Lifts not approved:  * East Peak chair * Silver King chair * Snorting Elk chair  Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with this decision. Neither East Peak nor Silver King will be developed. (The rebuilding of the Bullion Basin chairlift makes me nervous. I don't think it makes much sense unless you're going to develop East Peak.)  Much of the North Backcountry will be come lift-served frontcountry, but at least you'll still have to hike a little to reach Morning Glory Bowl. The South Backcountry will remained unchanged. I don't like the Summit Tram idea, but that really only affects lift skiers. My main concern about this development is that it will make Crystal Mountain bigger and more "resort-like" and will result in higher ticket prices, making it less attractive for families and new skiers.  This message has been cross-posted here:  http://www.turns-all-year.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=ha1;action=display;num=1092696727  http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=260482#260482  http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/383233/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllYouCanEat Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 (edited) Thanks for the info. Your post does bring up a question. How does Washington (US) prices compare worldwide. As for Washington (haven't been elsewhere to ski. I don't want to risk my skewed view of cascade superiority), I remember as a kid buying tickets for 15 dollars with deals for mid week, end of the season. These still seem to exist, but not at crystal. I have avoided this resort for many years mainly due to their high prices. Not to mention the typical: bad food and too many people. I guess that's why I stay in the backcountry nowadays. I do still enjoy the resorts, but unless I stick to one place and buy a season’s pass there really isn't a cheap alternative to skiing at multiple resorts (the state pass is something like 1500 dollars). I couldn't imagine trying to take a family up skiing. With a family of let's say four your talking several hundred dollars per day. Edited August 16, 2004 by AllYouCanEat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstemley Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Seems that a little tree thining is going to take place on the north front, the lift choice dosen't seem to impact the hike and ski to much yet. It will be interesting to see if the lift improve the Quality of the place or just pushes the freshy hunters to a new panic state knowing that the traverses are just a little shorter,and the boarders won't have to traverse as much. Will northback will be safe from instant return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graupel Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Here is the key info, ticket holders would be prevented from leaving the ski area boundary: Â The SUP boundary will be closed to ticketed skiers in order to protect wilderness areas and deter skiers from entering MRNP. Â Under the Selected Alternative, the SUP boundary will be closed to ticketed skiers and enforced by Crystal Mountain, which will minimize the likelihood of ticketed skiers from entering into the MRNP or Norse Peak Wilderness. In addition, Crystal Mountain will fund a winter snow ranger position to work with Crystal Mountain in enforcing the closed boundary policy. Â note: according to their list of abbreviations, SUP means Special Use Permit. Â In order to maintain consistency with the wilderness designation of MRNP, Crystal Mountain will implement a boundary closure along MRNP, as directed by MRNP and the US Forest Service. Crystal Mountain will not permit out-of-bounds skiing into MRNP for the express purpose of skiing into the park. Traversing to Silver King via MRNP will be allowed for skiing within the SUP area. A boundary management plan will be developed to include signage indicating that the MRNP boundary is closed to ticketed skiers, that MRNP is not controlled for avalanche safety, and that search and rescue by Crystal Mountain Ski Patrol may not be available to out-of-bounds skiers. Â Norse Peak Wilderness access is also to be restricted: In order to maintain consistency with the wilderness designation of NPW and to minimize impacts to backcountry skiers in the NPW, Crystal Mountain will implement a boundary closure along NPW, as directed by the US Forest Service. Crystal Mountain will not permit out-of-bounds skiing into NPW. A boundary management plan will be developed to include signage indicating that the wilderness boundary is closed to ticketed skiers, that the wilderness is not controlled for avalanche safety, and that search and rescue by Crystal Mountain Ski Patrol may not be available to out-of-bounds skiers. Â Also no lift accessed mountain biking: Crystal Mountain will encourage the use of one core trail for tram riders and all tram riders will ride the tram down the mountain after Labor Day to address conflicts with elk movement through the area. During the summer operation of the Summit Tram, there will be no operation of the Chinook Express or Rainier Express chairlifts. Crystal Mountain will include no lift-served mountain biking to address elk movement through the area. Crystal Mountain will monitor the ridership to determine the use of trails by tram riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 This sucks in a huge way. That terrain on the backside of Upper Northway has dealt out the best payoff for a bit of hiking in the state for so long - it will be painful to see it go. Â I can't think of another place where 10 minutes of hiking opens the door to that kind of vert and that kind of terrain. I am going to have to tip a 40 atop Northway this spring and have a moment of silence for the passing of the state's best lift served run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I don't have too much issue with CM putting in a tram, and if they have to put in a new lift I guess the area they've selected is the least objectionable to me. Â The only thing that really bugs me is trying to close the backcountry to lift access skiing. I've always loved that feature of Crystal, and I don't look forward to trying to dodge some nazi patrol guy while trying to get into the backcountry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowell_Skoog Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 The only thing that really bugs me is trying to close the backcountry to lift access skiing. I've always loved that feature of Crystal, and I don't look forward to trying to dodge some nazi patrol guy while trying to get into the backcountry. Â It sounds like this will only be an issue if you want to ride the lifts to get to either East Peak (Norse Pk Wilderness) or the SR-410 corridor (Rainier National Park). Typically, Bullion Basin and East Peak skiers haven't used lifts at all, but this could change if they rebuild the Bullion Basin chair. The likely conflict will be for people who like to ski down to 410, or to a lesser degree, for people traversing toward Crystal Lake or Chinook Pass. Skiing into Silver Basin from the lifts shouldn't be affected since it is within the Crystal Mountain permit area. If you don't use the lifts, you won't be restricted, as far as I can tell. Â I imagine that the lift skiers who like to ski down to 410 will howl the loudest. To be honest, I never thought that run looked worth doing (too little open country and too many tight trees), but I know other people definitely feel different about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graupel Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 If you thought the nazi patroller idea was bad, wait till you have a "winter snow ranger" hired expressly for the purpose of keeping you out of the backcountry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 From the area I've skied Three Way peak a number of times. Also with a season pass it's quite reasonable cost wise to head into Crystal Lakes basin for the day. Â I suppose all of that will get you in trouble with the snow ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversummer Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Can you imagine what it would be like trying to enforce such a rule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 The best part of that discussion was this line:Â "Summer is getting old and tired. The light is turning amber in the evening and occasionally I can feel a cool breath of fall. I'm ready. You?" Â Sounds like smiff season is almost upon us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Can you imagine what it would be like trying to enforce such a rule... Â One of the Colorado resorts (or was it WY?) several years ago had the Forest Service ticketing people at the run out of the OB area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I believe you could enforce the rule, or at least make it a pain in the ass to avoid the ranger and patrolers. All you'd need is a guy on AT gear hanging out on top of the King and one or two other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversummer Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 All you need, is the budget to do so (extra patrollers) and the willingness to stand out there and freeze... And the top of the King would be about the most worthless place to do it unless all you want to do is spot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmiller Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Let's face it, speed limits, stop signs, traffic lights, lanes, police officers, (POLICE SKI PATROL) yes, armed and with a badge. Not to mention skier rage. It's gonna happen. Ski areas are going to become like our roadways! WE DON'T NEED MORE FREAKIN LIFTS!!!! If we wanna ski it, hike or climb for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 (edited) Didn't you read? CM already commited to hiring a snow ranger to look for punks breakin the law. Â As to the spot...whatever... you can see anyone leaving towards Crystal Lakes from the King, and a good skier could probably catch up with anyone. But I'm sure there are other good spots to lurk. Edited August 18, 2004 by AlpineK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversummer Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 (edited) Yep read it, and I believe that fund was the word for it not hire. As in it is a government position. I would imagine that the patrol will be the ones primarily responsible for enforceing the boundry closure. I would also bet that the snow ranger will for the most part occasionaly tour the boundry line to check for compliance (signage, ropes) and count tracks. While spending most of his/her time doing other things. I can tell you the last thing that the patrol will be doing is chasing you out there, way to big a time commitment on their part, if they happen to be there when you go out or come back then you'll get chatted to. The really interesting thing will be the reprecussions, I doubt it will be any more than a speech, your ticket yanked for the day and your name added to a list. Essentially no more than ducking any rope there can get you. Edited August 18, 2004 by neversummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graupel Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Although depending on how serious they are about enforcement, they might have the sheriff wait at the bottom of the Crystal Mountain Road for skiers coming down to 410. The sheriff has harassed folks there before, but now it sounds like there would be some sort of defined infraction involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 People get busted for poaching all the time in CO. If I remember right it's a big fine from the sheriff. Â I'm also sure that patrolers will also be in on messing with folks. Â I'm sure most of the time you could sneak out without getting busted, but it's a headach I don't want to have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Looks like LARRY THE TOOL can have a Winter job too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 they need to develop skis that attach together briefly so you can shuffle out under the line and it looks like a snowboard track. you could periodically drop cigarette butts, and zumiez and flow stickers for additional convincing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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