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sailBOI

PATRIOT ACT

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I have been seeing lots of condemnation of the Patriot Act, and blame is focussed on Ashcroft and Bush.

I have previously posted that there was wide bipartisan support for these measures when this was enacted.

 

In the event that you are of the opinion that we need to abolish the Patriot Act, you really owe it to yourself and all of us to take the time to read this shocking account :

 

TERROR IN THE SKY

 

TERROR IN THE SKY 2

 

How many will become the next victims of Political Correctness ?

hellno3d.gif

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Hopefully fewer than will become victims of shitty spelling.

 

For the record, it's spelled S-K-I-E-S.

 

Enjoy your totalitarian monocultural shopping mall lockdown existence! Sorry, threat level is red again today. Please stay indoors with your blinds closed!

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Bi-partisan support does not mean it was the right thing to do.

If everyone agreed to steal your car, would that mean it was right?

If the Republicans voted with the Democrats to suspend what little remains of your civil liberties, would you lie back and say "Oh, well, at least it had bipartisan support"?

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Bi-partisan support does not mean it was the right thing to do.

If everyone agreed to steal your car, would that mean it was right?

If the Republicans voted with the Democrats to suspend what little remains of your civil liberties, would you lie back and say "Oh, well, at least it had bipartisan support"?

 

I would agree with that, we should always be cautious, but I saw the other day that Sen. Dianne Feinstein said she has not heard reports of abuse of the Patriot Act.....did you read these lengthy articles I linked above?

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Sen. Dianne Feinstein said she has not heard reports of abuse of the Patriot Act

 

From the ACLU website:

"without a warrant and without probable cause, the FBI now has the power to access your most private medical records, your library records, and your student records... and can prevent anyone from telling you it was done."

 

Perhaps the Patriot Act has been used (abused) and no one knows about it? I don't think it's OK for Intelligence agencies to have this kind of power. I like my rights. I like my privacy. I think the government had the power to investigate and prosecute organized crime/"terrorism" before this legislation was passed and I think it only passed because of the climate of fear and knee-jerk protectionist "Patriotism" following 911.

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Grassroots opposition to the USA Patriot Act

 

State of Alaska

 

Anchorage

 

Bethel

 

Fairbanks

 

Gustavus

 

Homer

 

Juneau

 

Kenai

 

North Pole

 

Skagway

 

Sitka

 

Soldotna

 

Arizona

 

Bisbee

 

Flagstaff

 

Jerome

 

Pima County

 

Tucson

 

California

 

Albany

 

Arcata

 

Berkeley

 

Claremont

 

Contra Costa County

 

Cotati

 

Davis

 

Duarte

 

Dublin

 

EI Cerrito

 

Emeryville

 

Fairfax

 

Hayward

 

Lake County

 

Livermore

 

Los Angeles

 

Los Gatos

 

Marin County

 

Mendocino County

 

Mill Valley

 

Mountain View

 

Oakland

 

Pacific Grove

 

Palo Alto

 

Pinole

 

Pleasanton

 

Point Arena

 

Porterville

 

Richmond

 

Sacramento

 

Salinas

 

San Anselmo

 

San Francisco

 

San Jose

 

San Rafael

 

San Ramon

 

Santa Barbara

 

Santa Clara

 

Santa Cruz County

 

Santa Cruz

 

Santa Monica

 

Saratoga

 

Sausalito

 

Sebastopol

 

Soledad

 

Sonoma

 

South Pasadena

 

Tehama County

 

Ukiah

 

Union City

 

Watsonville

 

West Hollywood

 

Yolo County

 

Colorado

 

Boulder

 

Crestone

 

Denver

 

Durango

 

Fort Collins

 

Ridgway

 

San Miguel County

 

Telluride

 

Ward

 

Connecticut

 

Bethany

 

Hartford

 

Mansfield

 

New Haven

 

Delaware

 

Arden

 

Newark

 

Wilmington

 

Florida

 

Alachua County

 

Broward County

 

Sarasota

 

Georgia

 

Atlanta

 

State of Hawaii

 

Honolulu

 

Idaho

 

Boise

 

Idaho County

 

Illinois

 

Carbondale

 

Chicago

 

Evanston

 

Glencoe

 

Oak Park

 

Indiana

 

Bloomington

 

Maine

 

Waterville

 

Maryland

 

Baltimore

 

Greenbelt

 

Montgomery Cty

 

Prince George's County

 

Takoma Park

 

Massachusetts

 

Amherst

 

Arlington

 

Ashfield

 

Brewster

 

Brookline

 

Greenburgh

 

Ithaca

 

Town of New Paltz

 

Village of New Paltz

 

New York

 

North Hempstead

 

Nyack

 

Rosendale

 

Schenectady

 

Schuyler County

 

St. Lawrence Cty

 

Syracuse

 

Urbana

 

Woodstock

 

North Carolina

 

Carrboro

 

Chapel Hill

 

Davidson

 

Durham County

 

Durham

 

Greensboro

 

Orange County

 

Ohio

 

Cleveland Heights

 

Oberlin

 

Oxford

 

Toledo

 

Yellow Springs

 

Oregon

 

Ashland

 

Astoria

 

Benton County

 

Corvallis

 

Douglas County

 

Eugene

 

Gaston

 

Lane County

 

Portland

 

Port Orford

 

Talent

 

Pennsylvania

 

Lansdowne

 

Philadelphia

 

Reading

 

Wilkinsburg

 

York

 

Rhode Island

 

Charlestown

 

Middletown

 

New Shoreham

 

North Providence

 

Providence

 

South Kingstown

 

Tennessee

 

Blount County

 

Texas

 

Austin

 

Sunset Valley

 

Utah

 

Castle Valley

 

State of Vermont

 

Athens

 

Brattleboro

 

Burlington

 

Dummerston

 

Guilford

 

Jamaica

 

Marlboro

 

Montpelier

 

Newfane

 

Putney

 

Rockingham

 

Warren

 

Westminster

 

Waitsfield

 

Windham

 

Virginia

 

Alexandria

 

Charlottesville

 

Washington

 

Bainbridge Island

 

Bellingham

 

Clallam County

 

Jefferson County

 

King County

 

Olympia

 

Oroville

 

Port Townsend

 

Riverside

 

San Juan County

 

Seattle

 

Snoqualmie

 

Tacoma

 

Tonasket

 

Twisp

 

Vashon-Maury Island

 

West Virginia

 

Huntington

 

Wisconsin

 

Douglas County

 

Madison

 

Wyoming

 

Fremont County

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I have been seeing lots of condemnation of the Patriot Act, and blame is focussed on Ashcroft and Bush.

I have previously posted that there was wide bipartisan support for these measures when this was enacted.

 

In the event that you are of the opinion that we need to abolish the Patriot Act, you really owe it to yourself and all of us to take the time to read this shocking account :

 

TERROR IN THE SKY

 

TERROR IN THE SKY 2

 

How many will become the next victims of Political Correctness ?

hellno3d.gif

Go die you little troll.They want to take away my freedom and you defend it?If I ever meet you I have A urine sample Id like you to analize. mad.gif

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I would agree with that, we should always be cautious, but I saw the other day that Sen. Dianne Feinstein said she has not heard reports of abuse of the Patriot Act.....did you read these lengthy articles I linked above?

 

Feinstein said her office has never received a complaint of Patriot Act abuse. Documentable and verifiable.

 

As for your terror in the sky crap - you wear a white sheet on the weekends?

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Brandon Mayfield, Portland area lawyer detained, then released

 

Seattle photography student harrassed. (click on B&W photo at link)

 

FBI harrassment continues, artist faces 20 year charges

 

Feds Seek Anthrax Suit Dismissal, suit filed by Dr. Steven J. Hatfill a bioterrorism expert, accused of anthrax letters

 

There's probably more out there. What was it that Benjamin Franklin said? "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."

-- James Madison

 

"It is the first responsibliity of every citizen to question authority."

-- Benjamin Franklin

 

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

-- Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States (1901-1909), speaking in 1918

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What was it that Benjamin Franklin said? "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."

-- James Madison

 

"It is the first responsibliity of every citizen to question authority."

-- Benjamin Franklin

 

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

-- Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States (1901-1909), speaking in 1918

thumbs_up.gif

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sailor dude, how can you generalize against all democrats by saying some oppose the patriot act? Out here in Idaho, I deal with right wing crazys like you on a daily basis (unless I visit Moscow). Its Republicans that oppose the patriot act here, like senator Craig, Butch Otter (a nnodder), Gov Kempthorne, and your buddy Randy Weaver. They all oppose it because of our loss of freedoms. Do you really think we need the patriot act, or is it possible we already had the laws needed to keep our country safe, and it was in effect just incompetence by our gov. agencies? And do you feel safer with Tom Ridge sitting behind a shiny new desk in DC???

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sailor dude, how can you generalize against all democrats by saying some oppose the patriot act? Out here in Idaho, I deal with right wing crazys like you on a daily basis (unless I visit Moscow). Its Republicans that oppose the patriot act here, like senator Craig, Butch Otter (a nnodder), Gov Kempthorne, and your buddy Randy Weaver. They all oppose it because of our loss of freedoms. Do you really think we need the patriot act, or is it possible we already had the laws needed to keep our country safe, and it was in effect just incompetence by our gov. agencies? And do you feel safer with Tom Ridge sitting behind a shiny new desk in DC???

 

I don't think I have said anything about Democrats, but if you want to talk Democrats.....Kerry supported the Patriot Act, voted for it and now want parts of it strengthened.

Islamic radicals are using Western civil liberties as a weapon, here and in Europe. Do I like the Patriot Act, NO !!!! Do I think it necessary, YES , unfortunately. Where do you get off branding me a Right Wing loonie, when I post a story from the WSJ ??

There is entirely too much personal affront going on in this forum to allow a balanced debate.... cantfocus.gif

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The Patriot Act was pushed through in a hurry while the public was still in a panic about 9-11. To oppose it would have been political suicide. It was a case of "we need to do something, NOW!". Now that we have calmed down a little it is time to reexamine the provisions of the Act. I believe that some provisions should be repealed and others preserved. I don't think anyone is advocating a wholesale repeal of the entire act.

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Where do you get off branding me a Right Wing loonie, when I post a story from the WSJ ??

Your enough of loon to not realize the WSJ is by far the most right of any major newspaper.....

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Where do you get off branding me a Right Wing loonie, when I post a story from the WSJ ??

Your enough of loon to not realize the WSJ is by far the most right of any major newspaper.....

 

OK, business is right wing, NY Times is neutral, right? But why are you branding me, what does that have to do with the debate at hand ?? I am actually a Libertarian, and believe in minimal government, so did our founding fathers. It is a little known fact however, that these gentleman founded the US Navy in order to deal with Islamic insurgents, the Barbary Pirates :

USA deals with Islamics in the early days

 

wink.gif

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I find it amusing that the same crew who passionately advocate on behalf of hate crime laws are up in arms about the Patriot Act. When the government adds an additional penalty for the beliefs that motivated a violent act rather than administering the same punishment for the same acts of violence irrespective of the motivation for the said acts, the government has effectively determined which beliefs are acceptable and which are not.

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Sailboi makes a good point about Democrats supporting the Patriot Act. The Dems—including Kerry and Edwards—were cravenly afraid to stand up against the paranoid infringement on civil liberties (such as the ability to search library records) that the Patriot Act represents. This is not to say that all aspects of the Patriot Act are evil. Certainly, the provisions that allow greater sharing of information among intelligence services are unexceptionable. However, there were no legal obstacles to that sharing before, only some bureaucratic customs.

 

The episode regarding the plane flight, on the other hand, is a bizarre example of how some people’s paranoia can run rampant. To summarize: 1) Some individuals of Middle Eastern extraction got on an airplane. 2) Their behavior was odd, although not threatening or hostile. 3) The plane landed without incident.

 

What should have been done? Should those passengers have been taken off the plane? Should they have been arrested after the plane landed? If they are foreign nationals, should they be deported? Sent to Guantanamo? Abu Ghraib?

 

It was speculated that those passengers may have been rehearsing for a 9/11-type hijacking. Really? How would you know? Do you think that just maybe, any Al Qaeda operatives would be smart enough not to try the same exact thing twice? Do you think that after 9/11, any plane full of passengers and crew would respond a little bit differently than before 9/11?

 

If you want to defend the Patriot Act, defend it on its merits, rather than by citing the fevered product of somebody’s imagination.

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Where do you get off branding me a Right Wing loonie, when I post a story from the WSJ ??

 

You need to read the links you posted again boi. You didn't cite the WSJ.

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