Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
scott_johnston

[TR] Le Petit Cheval near WA pass- Spontaneity Arete 7/20/2004

Recommended Posts

What I don't understand is if we don't have fixed lines how are the strippers supposed to get to start of the routes?

 

Its got to be hard to negotiate a lot of these approaches in high heels and a bikini.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nice to see some reactions here. i'm always happy to stir things up.

 

drink, spew, fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeeze, I missed some good spray between this thread and Dane's by going climbing yesterday. NEVER AGAIN!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No good deed goes unpunished eh?

I use the elevator to get to the office every day after I ride in but I can still manage to negotiate the stairs that lead to my apartment when I get home...

 

Your observation is relevant ONLY if you desire the routes you climb to resemble your office building. We're talking about the mountains, for crying out loud. Maybe we should allow chopper drops into the heart of the N. Cascades, since your average climber can't really handle the approach. Why don't we blast the last 1000 feet of Rainier? I'm a climber of kind of average ability and occasionally I get sick up there.

 

When you pioneer a new route that features a trail of trash, your contribution is dubious, whether you report it on a website or not, whether you think you're making the mountains safe for Joe Average or putting up a modern-day Astroman. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can all stop getting our feelings hurt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

uh.... is this climbing discussion in the spray forum? ? ? ?

 

I didn't think this was allowed wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"somebody" fixed lines on the 2 pitch bush approach at the start of St Vitus Dance around the time Calculus Crack was scrubbed and they were gone within the week laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No good deed goes unpunished eh?

I use the elevator to get to the office every day after I ride in but I can still manage to negotiate the stairs that lead to my apartment when I get home...

 

Your observation is relevant ONLY if you desire the routes you climb to resemble your office building. We're talking about the mountains, for crying out loud. Maybe we should allow chopper drops into the heart of the N. Cascades, since your average climber can't really handle the approach. Why don't we blast the last 1000 feet of Rainier? I'm a climber of kind of average ability and occasionally I get sick up there.

 

When you pioneer a new route that features a trail of trash, your contribution is dubious, whether you report it on a website or not, whether you think you're making the mountains safe for Joe Average or putting up a modern-day Astroman. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can all stop getting our feelings hurt.

 

Yeah. That's clearly what I'm advocating. Yawn.

 

A couple of short sections of fixed rope over some low fifth choss on the way to a muti-pitch trad line does about as much to lower the bar on that route as the steps on the trail that lead out of the parking lot at Paradise lower the bar for people attempting Ranier.

 

I could actually really care less about the ropes though. What I think is unfortunate is that people who took exception to the fixed lines couldn't seem to say so in a way that gets their point across without alienating the FA who posted the details of the route for the sole purpose of alleviating the overcrowding at one of the state's more popular climbing areas. It would be a shame if he declines to do so in the future on account of the response he got here, but I can't say I'd blame the guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"somebody" fixed lines on the 2 pitch bush approach at the start of St Vitus Dance around the time Calculus Crack was scrubbed and they were gone within the week laugh.gif

 

There was a fixed line there as of last weekend. Just to the left of the start of the first "bushy" pitch. I kinda like those two pitches - treeclimbing reminds me of my youth. cool.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mazamas fixed a rope on the 4th class section above the rappel on Mt. Washington yesterday. Is that considered booty even though they are using it at the time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fixed ropes are fukin trash and attract attention by the Government to limit our access to our beloved mts.

why give them another excuse to put a gate up and gaurds with fee stations....

think about it.

The NPS has already taken the position that fixed ropes are trash in Yosemite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the NPS knows exactly where the fixed ropes on the approach to Leaning Tower, Lurking Fear/West Face, on the East ledges raps, on the Half Dome slabs approach, and to Heart Ledges are, yet they choose to leave them in place because they are frequently used by climbers, the guide company, and YOSAR.

 

The rangers there told me it was a "spirit of the law" versus "letter of the law" situation, and that if you are fixing on a route, 24 hours is the guideline but they aren't going to give you flack if you decide to take a rest day after fixing, or it rains for a few days or whatever. The spirit of the law is to prevent abuse of the priviledge of fixing lines. On heavily used spots like these, I don't think it's an issue. Whether the traffic this route will see justifies fixed lines remains to be seen. Being a new route, I don't see how it could justify them, but if these guys are going to be guiding it 3 times a week, maybe it does.

 

The "eyesore/wilderness experience" argument could be valid. The "lowering the bar/luring gumbies onto the route" argument is weak. Just MHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The rangers there told me it was a "spirit of the law" versus "letter of the law" situation, and that if you are fixing on a route, 24 hours is the guideline but they aren't going to give you flack if you decide to take a rest day after fixing, or it rains for a few days or whatever. The spirit of the law is to prevent abuse of the priviledge of fixing lines. On heavily used spots like these, I don't think it's an issue. Whether the traffic this route will see justifies fixed lines remains to be seen. Being a new route, I don't see how it could justify them, but if these guys are going to be guiding it 3 times a week, maybe it does.

Will-

They have confiscated ropes in the past, and any system that doesn't obey the Letter of the Law is vulnerable to policy changes, particularly if some concerned citizen or group decides to make a stink.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so no more leaving rap slings in the alpine just because you aren’t a capable enough climber to down climb the route you came up right? And obviously no more bolts for rap anchors either. Oh yeah, not more clipping fixed gear for you either. This is ridiculous. Where does it end? All those trails are a damn eye sore too, as are the roads I can see from the top of the WA Pass peaks.

 

If you don’t like the fixed lines don’t use them, or better yet, go climb some where else. Yeah, they are more of an eye sore than slings, no doubt about that, but I really doubt fixed lines are going to draw more people to do the route than without. If there was a handline up the gully to the Beckey route do you honestly think it would be more crowded? I really doubt it. The possibility of slipping in the gully doesn’t discourage people from going up there (although the possibility of rockfall might).

 

I’m not saying we should have fixed lines strewn out across the entire north cascades but a thoughtfully placed fixed line here and there (especially at “alpine cragging” areas) is fine by me.

 

PS – Scott et al: thanks for the beta on the new line, keep ‘em coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dustin, why dont you go back to the republican convention and stay...

the climbs are cool, yeah keep em coming scott...

but the ropes left to make "guiding" easier is only feeding the fire....in other words, giving land managers more excuses to hamper the sport we love.

your response is so shrub-like.

 

How do you know I'm not writing this from my cushy office at the Republican Convention? Or on my laptop during a meeting with my Young Republican's Group? We have this durn internet thang all over the place...

 

I think everyone here could see your response coming. Its very boring by now and not at all original yellowsleep.gifyellowsleep.gifrolleyes.gif Stop being so close-minded and open your eyes to the possibility that people with different opinions than yours exist. wave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×