Accident Reports...

[icegirl]

Does anyone know anything about a dude who fell 100' into a crevass this last weekend?

 

What do people thing about having an accident reports discussion section, to learn from others mishaps. I know there have been some discussions out there, but how about putting them all in one place...

[Cpt.Caveman]

What mountain was he on

 

I dont think there is anything wrong with learning from accidents but some people gathering the "facts" dont know squat or others that might have some knowledge might just overspeculate and give erroneous info as well (assumptions).

 

Then you get the 3rd part where people just talk smack about what they would have done or how dumb or irresponsible etc these people are.

 

I think it's better left on a discussion instead of some database full of shithouse facts.

[icegirl]

Don't know what mtn, just caught the tail end of it mentioned.

 

[ 07-29-2002, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: icegirl ]

[Cpt.Caveman]

It's not all a bad idea I just think someone's name or etc can be singled out easily on a database and I dont want mine in there if something happens to me.

 

It kind of opens it up to an easily findable criteria where I dont think we need one. Usually a good discussion is made but not always.

 

[ 07-29-2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[klar404]

I don't know where this dude had his fall but I was a total dumb ass last weekend and punched in a moat, unroped, and fell 15 feet on to a snow plug. Rock on my right( no helmet) deep BLACK hole behind me.Sunglasses and Ice ax sitting in front of me in a cute little pile.And I was on 'friken Monte Cristo peak! I think Its the fact that I let my gaurd down 'cause I was on a "easy" peak that's close to home.I really want that to be the reason. My partner was more shook up than I was about the thing 'cause the last time he was climbing his buddy almost got waxed by a huge rockfall on Dragontail. I've been climbing for over 12 years. You would think I would know. All it takes is ONE stupid move. I don't really care if somebody starts a thread or whatever on accidents but I felt I needed to relate my idiocy.

 

[ 07-29-2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: klar404 ]

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah that's cool.

 

But then you can take on speculation combined with association with accidents on the web. I think mostly keeping names out is a good idea and the bs out of it. People are smart enough to decide where they might think someone else went wrong or what they might want to be more aware of.

 

But how are you going to do that here.

 

[ 07-29-2002, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[salbrecher]

I slid down Shuksans summit pyramid once . luckly i missed the rock outcrops on the way down Anybody else have any stupid mistakes climbing stories?

[Guest]

One time at Band Camp ....

[Cobra]

I bet he fell into that crevasse because he was used to clipping bolts on sport ice.

[erik]

yeah icegirl i do not think having a random access databse is a good thing. much like what ray said is that sometimes the sources are less then credible or all the facts may have not been complied and displayed in a format in which all can uunderstand.

 

ontop of that each person may get something different about each accident. so to have people comment on it, may just cause the lesson to be lost....

 

and i think it is rude of you to go "oh i forgot who i was talking to" because you may be suprised at who is the best anbd brightest in the world.

 

accidents in n.a. mtneering is a good source as it has professionals interptating the rescue reports and it allows for the accidents victims to give their say in the incident as well.

[666]

I thought all accidents were caused by mountaineers.

[jon]

Regardless of whether there is a forum for this or not people will talk about accidents.

 

After being witness to a near fatality accident, and being friends with the person involved, I would be pretty pissed if people that didn't see everything that happened or weren't even there started pointing figures, second guessing, or flaming us about anything that went on before or after the accident. In my friends case we will probably never know the exact cause and can only speculate, and unfortunately had to learn a few lessons the hard way.

 

That said I would rather let my thick skin take a little abuse if it meant preventing another accident and saving somebody else from having to go through what my friend, his family and friends, had to go through.

[plumbbob]

Don't know how yet but there was a fatality on Devils Thumb on Saturday. This was in The Anchorage Paper

 

Climber killed in fall in Southeast

STRANDED: Second climber stuck on Devil's Thumb until

weather clears.

 

By Sean Cockerham

Anchorage Daily News

 

(Published: July 29, 2002)

 

A climber from Utah has reportedly fallen to his death on

Devil's Thumb near Petersburg and his companion remains

stuck on the peak with the body until the weather clears.

 

The surviving climber on Devil's Thumb, who is believed

unhurt, used a cell phone to report that his climbing partner

had died sometime Friday night, state troopers said.

 

The dead climber was identified as Marc Springer, a

30-year-old from Layton, Utah.

 

Troopers said that four climbers, each with at least 10

years of experience, had been on a weeklong climbing

expedition on Devil's Thumb, a 9,077-foot peak about 25

miles northeast of Petersburg in Southeast Alaska.

 

Two of the climbers, 22-year-old Mark Anderson from New

Mexico and 26-year-old Janelle Jakulewicz, had been picked

up by Temsco Helicopters late on Friday.

 

But bad weather forced the helicopter to return to

Petersburg without retrieving the other two climbers.

 

One of them was Springer and the other was a fellow Utah

resident named Mike Anderson, whose exact age has not

been determined, state troopers said.

 

Then, sometime on Friday night, Springer apparently fell to

his death. The details are sketchy.

 

"The report came in from (Anderson) who was on a cell

phone with very low batteries," said Petersburg Fish and

Wildlife Trooper Scott Carson. "He didn't elaborate a lot."

 

Members of the climbing party who were retrieved on Friday

have speculated that maybe Springer fell from a cliff

located near their camp at about 7,000 feet, Carson said.

The group had been using the cliff for exercise.

 

On Saturday morning, after hearing of the accident,

Temsco Helicopters attempted to reach the scene. The

helicopter made it to an ice field, called the Witches

Cauldron, located at the base of the peak. But the weather

was too bad to continue.

 

On Sunday the weather worsened.

 

"It's pretty much pea soup here," Carson reported on

Sunday afternoon. The National Weather Service indicates

the weather may not clear enough to reach the scene until

Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

Carson said that Anderson, the surviving climber on the

peak, apparently has a week's supply of food and is

believed to be at the 7,000-foot camp. He has been out of

communication since Saturday morning.

 

Springer, the Utah climber who has reportedly died, was

mentioned in Alaska news reports last year when he was

stricken with high-altitude sickness at the 14,200-foot mark

of Mount McKinley and needed to be airlifted out.

 

Reporter Sean Cockerham can be reached at 907 257-4343

or scockerham@adn.com

 

Utah climber named

[Goat_Boy]

3rd Party speculation, even from experienced climbers, seems frequently useless. Facts become fairly subjective in desperate circumstances. We all “think” we would have stayed put near Liberty Cap, or gone for the steam caves at the summit, but it’s impossible to fully understand any situation until you’re in those conditions, under that strain, dealing with your partner’s condition and mental state. You rarely hear criticism from rescue professionals. Accidents in NA is an interesting read because is takes a pretty dispassionate look at situations and tries to break them down objectively without criticizing the decision making.

 

Unless, of course, inexperience and eagerness tip the scales of natural selection against the poor sod. Then fire away.

[kevin]

As for your question, icegirl. I was on Kangaroo ridge saturday when the lifeline helicopter and an army chopper flew over. I have no factual information, but what I heard at the Liberty bell overlook was that a climber fell 100 feet on Cutthroat, sustained serious injuries and was helivaced off the mountian. I also heard that numberous helicopter problems resulted in the need to send a total of three choppers before they got him out.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I understand that people will certainly learn and speculate and still learn from accidents. Learn from the past eh.

 

But my thoughts were that opening a special forum might not be the way to go for a few reasons is all. I almost got my ass killed more than twice and will admit my mistakes but this is the spray master board and there is always the lurking monger. What happened to to that guy making fun of people on Baker last time and pissed off mikeadam? Remember that dude zdfg?

 

I hope you all climb safely this summer.

 

[ 07-29-2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[icegirl]

Apologies to those who feel them necessary.

 

I edited that out.

 

I read the annual accident report, and in more than one instance have known the people well that were being written about.

 

The things I am more interested in (than who messed up and did what and what would "I" done) is more along the lines of how did these people survive, how were the evacuated, things like that. Not what stupid things got them into the mess, but what smart things got them out...

[Off_White]

The only thing I can add is to nod my head at everything the Caveman said, well put.

[otherguy]

I'd like to report that Trask had an accident in his pants. He went number 2.

[Alpine_Tom]

quote:

---

Originally posted by otherguy:

I'd like to report that Trask had an accident in his pants. He went number 2.

---

Wasn't that in LAST YEAR'S "Accidents in NA Mountaineering?"

[Crackbolter]

Bob,

 

I remember hearing about that accident. Thanks for finding the link. I agree with icegirl about having an accident specific topic. Even if there are poor opinions posted or misinformation being posted. This is nothing new to this website. It would be nice to have specific conversations regarding accidents and make it an on going discussion..

 

I will lurk now.

 

T

[fleblebleb]

I think an "accident reports" forum would be a good idea. Of course there would be misinformation and spray and sillyness but that's the nature of the site.

[Figger_Eight]

I'm with Ray on this one. It's bad enough around here when an accident happens and all the armchair mountaineers pop-off. Providing a forum for them to do so would make it worse. That's what Accidents in NA Mountaineering is for. If I wanted to read more speculation, I'd just pick up the paper.

[allthumbs]

otherguy said:

I'd like to report that Trask had an accident in his pants. He went number 2.

 

brilliant smartass. ya think that up all by yourself? just so ya know, you made my shit list and I on you from great height.

[catbirdseat]

Somewhere between the two extremes of no Accident Forum and an Accident Sprayfest, there must lie a useful format. I have to believe this. One way to do it would be to have it more heavily moderated than other forums. Perhaps contributors would submit their posts directly to the moderator who would decide whether to post, return for edit, or not post. I agree that there should be no place for wild speculation. There should be only useful information. If someone then wants to speculate about a given post in the Spray Forum, then, by all means, have at it.