ridgeline Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 With the recent accidents, I’ve been thinking about why some climbers spend years, even most of their lives, in the mountains with few serious incidents and why other’s lives are claimed rather early. I’ve tossed around the more experience, better gear, fitness, luck, theories and in reality we probably can not point to 1 reason for why people die in mountains. I used to feel that the primary skill that separated good climbers from dead ones is their ability to assess objective hazards and keep their egos in check and know when to call no joy and go home. But, I’ve thought about it so much, I’m not even sure of that any more. Any theories why people die in the hills and others do not? If it comes down to a skill or something else I can control, I want to either have that skill or get it real soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Your original theory works. Just add the fact that even the best climbers can have bad luck...and that some objective danger can be impossible to detect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 everyone dies.... what matters is not the hour of your death but the manner of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 This sounds like a thread you'd find on rockclimbing.com... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I used to feel that the primary skill that separated good climbers from dead ones is their ability to assess objective hazards and keep their egos in check and know when to call no joy and go home there are a lot of dead climbers who were good, and there are a lot of shitty climbers and bumblies who are still alive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fear Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 This sounds like a thread you'd find on rockclimbing.com... I'm trying to setup a toprope anchor to my car. Well, actually it's not a car but a motorcycle. Anyway it's much heavier than me so it should work. I only have 23' of 9/16" webbing. Should I get 1" or will that stuff be strong enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buterFly Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 having just spent the day working in the ER at Harborview where i saw almost every nature of injury including an 18 year old girl who was killed in a car accident, and an 80 year old with a ruptured blood vessel in his brain, climbing does not seem all that more dangerous than any other part of living. yes there are things one can do to increase the odds of coming out of the mountains safe and alive; being observant, educated, strong and willing to turn around when circumstances dictate it. in the end, we have no more control of an avalanche than we do of the car that runs a red light killing the driver of the car he t-bones. i will do all that i can to stay alive in the mountains, but in the end... the pleasure i get from being in the mountains far out ways any risk of death. i can not say the same thing of riding on a motorcycle, so it is a personal choice that only you can make for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I read on cascadeclimbers.com that some people there have the new smith rock guide, but I can't find it anywhere in the stores? Anybody know how I can get a copy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 This was discussed in another thread. The new guide is not quite what people were hyping but it is pretty good nonetheless. Out of stock again though! perhaps you could post this to your rockclimbing.com friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 This sounds like a thread you'd find on rockclimbing.com... I'm trying to setup a toprope anchor to my car. Well, actually it's not a car but a motorcycle. Anyway it's much heavier than me so it should work. I only have 23' of 9/16" webbing. Should I get 1" or will that stuff be strong enough? I'm doing something similiar. I'm setting up a slackline, using a moped as a main anchor. The moped gets 53 miles per gallon. Should I use bent or oval biners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I dropped a nut 10ft yesterday but I think I will keep using it. If it had dropped 15ft I would of course retire it. After 20ft, the stress fractures would re-weld together, so I could keep it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I heard sylvain millet downgraded realization to 8c+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 You guys are gear whores! 1" webbing is way stronger than ropes but costs 5x as much.... thank you, but I will take the 1" webbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I heard sylvain millet downgraded realization to 8c+ But only to piss off the Americans, who recently renamed Liberty Ridge to Freedom Ridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I heard sylvain millet downgraded realization to 8c+ it'll be interesting to see what he says...if he downgrades it I think it'll be a purely ego thing or just trying to show off. It took him 3 fuckin' years to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 a fish takes the hook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 The best is the Nalgene water bottle gear review: http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/product.php?p=1296 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 The best is the Nalgene water bottle gear review: http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/product.php?p=1296 . I use them to carry water when I'm on a hike or even sometimes climbing. Mine was yellow. I once dropped one from 5 feet, and it got a scratch on it, so I returned it to REI. Other than that, it works great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman_Clyde Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 having just spent the day working in the ER at Harborview where i saw almost every nature of injury including an 18 year old girl who was killed in a car accident, and an 80 year old with a ruptured blood vessel in his brain, climbing does not seem all that more dangerous than any other part of living. I worked the night shift in the ER at Enumclaw, not too many miles from Liberty Ridge, both of the nights Peter Cooley and his partner were stranded on the mountain. I said a few prayers for them both, and anticipated being preoccupied with their fate and condition through the nights, but instead... as various individuals came into the ER in various states of crisis, I ended up reflecting on the fact that every day and night, all around us, people are suffering and dying. Sometimes their actions play a part, usually because they eat and drink and smoke too much, sometimes because they drive drunk or pick a fight or some such. Often enough they did nothing to bring it on. The last bad car wreck I dealt with, one driver fainted behind the wheel and crossed the line, causing a high speed head-on. No one was killed, but the most serious injury was in the other driver, who was minding her own business but happened to be in the way. This does not make me conclude that Liberty Ridge is therefore safer than Highway 104. I do a lot of driving, which no doubt puts me at risk, but climbing is more dangerous hour for hour than driving. Lately I've been re-evaluating how much risk is too much in my own case, whether the riskiest ventures are the most rewarding, and concluding that I'll have about as much fun, but expose myself to less risk, if I'm selective about routes and conditions, maybe avoiding some altogether. But I couldn't just stop climbing, and expect my life to have the same meaning. After one close call a few years ago, I spent the winter mulling things over, and decided that I will continue to assume a degree of risk in my pursuits. It just seemed wrong, and self-deceiving, to imagine that I could seek to eliminate all potential for bad happenings, and still live my life as it is meant to be lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Any theories why people die in the hills and others do not? I am aware that this thread is quickly headed to spray but, thought I'd mention one piece of advise David Parker posted here a while back that has stuck with me. "Most accidents in the mountains are caused by a series of mistakes or bad decisions." Just try to be aware of when negative factors are compounding into a downward spiral. Luck helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Eighteen different user reviews! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 The waterbottle is JUST THAT GOOD. I wish you didn't have to register to post a review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalX Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Eighteen different user reviews! 'im now down to about 20 or so after giving them away.' Only 20?! I always take at least 30 nalgenes with me on camping trips. I have a mule just for the nalgenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I've got a few Nalgenes that I've come into for free. And I have to say, I'm disappointed. Given half a chance, the Nalgene lets me down every time. If it's not the grit in the threads, then its the stink. Why is it so heavy when its full? Plus, they always run out of water when you need it most. Maybe if the bottle was 4x as big? I don't know, if might be ok if you're doing 3 bolt sport climbs, but for the 7 bolt testpieces I prefer, it just does not get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I can't believe the premium grade lexan let him down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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