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eternalX

quickdraws

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I was looking to buy a set of quickdraws (about 12) and I'm wondering if there's any real difference. These things tend to range in price from $8 - $25 each...a huge difference in price. I'm sure some of it is personal preference like biners, but you have to start somewhere to find out what you like. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks

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I don't think there is any real difference between cheap and very expensive quickdraws. The main difference is just weight. In my own opinion I feel that quickdraws have a very limited purpose, namely keeping biners steady and well oriented when clipping up pumpy sport routes. For trad climbing I just use rapid runners which in most cases are lighter than your basic quickdraw and quickly extend from 12 to 24 inches. I say go cheaply with the draws unless you are fanatical about weight.

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Bentgates are better for clipping but are more susceptible to unclipping (i.e. as a result of backclipping).

 

Wiregates are lighter and supposedly just as strong but I think are more sensitive to damage and wear.

 

Don't get slings that are loose on both 'biners, or if you do, tighten down the clipping side with tape or rubber bands, this makes clipping easier and prevents the biners from flipping around.

 

For conventional bolted climbs the 5" draws are fine, for anything else you might want some longer draws like the 7" as well.

 

The draw sets are cheaper, I got a set of metolius draws on sale a while back, they came out to $10/each.

 

A few months ago I saw some super cheap draws they were selling on closeout at Climb Max in PDX, but I was a little wary of them as the biners had little knobs sticking out next to the gate that the sling loop would catch on in a fall. I commented on this and the guy just said "I don't think that's a problem." I didn't buy them... just be careful in that kind of situation.

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I think there's a big difference, namely the carabiners. eX: go out and buy your favorite biner and build your own. Usually save $$ (especially w/ sales) and get exactly what you want. Just learn what you like to clip, as the rope side biner is the most important. For instance, neutrinos are light, but are a bitch to clip the rope into. I'm a big fan of the BD Hotwire, and the bent gate Petzl spirit. A key-lock on the piece/bolt end will make it easier to get into and out of some bolts&chains (don't use bd ovals!)

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if you search around you can sometimes find pre-made QD units for the same or lower price than buying the same 'biners individually. The short sewn sling is just a bonus that you can use or not use to taste.

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if you search around you can sometimes find pre-made QD units for the same or lower price than buying the same 'biners individually. The short sewn sling is just a bonus that you can use or not use to taste.

 

DFA recently replaced all his old-ass draws with BD pre-assembled draws, the ones with the Enduro straight gate on top and the Quickwire on the ropey end. Good combo of performance and cheap -- don't need nothing fancy on the bolts end, and the Enduro gets the job done; wiregates are smooooooth and easy clippin', and the Quickwires fit the bill without any unnecessary shizzle. This setup seems to go for ca. $12, give or take a buck; shop around.

 

Bear in mind that with cheap-shit gear from off brands, you're gonna get what you pay for. Notably companies like Blue Water and Omega, Kong or whatever will give you clunky handling, crappy gate action, etc. Maybe you're into that sort of thing, though?

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Bear in mind that with cheap-shit gear from off brands, you're gonna get what you pay for. Notably companies like Blue Water and Omega, Kong or whatever will give you clunky handling, crappy gate action, etc. Maybe you're into that sort of thing, though?

 

Yeah those ones I saw at Climb Max were old Bluewater "blems" or something. They looked like bad news but I'm sure they would work fine 99% of the time...

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For the discerning sporto, nothing clips as nice on those hard redpoint attempts like the sweet mamba:

 

Mamba.jpg

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For the discerning sporto, nothing clips as nice on those hard redpoint attempts like the sweet mamba:

 

Mamba.jpg

 

The Mamba? Whaddayou think thissiz, 1992? When a captive sling and cool anodizing made up for a miniscule gate opening? The future is here, and it is made of wire. The gate. The gate of the future is made of wire. You can keep your Mambas and your Sportiva Kendos and your Petzl Jump harness and your ultra-skinny 10.5 rope, gramps. Those of us hip to the new, improved, DFA-approved groove movement will be sporting (emphasis on the "sport", thanks) the more innovative and stylish accoutrements of the modern sendophile.

 

Represent, yo, for the deuce-double-z-fo' fa sho', comin' correct from the PDX, DFA posse snap back necks. Bes' belie'dat, keep it real, peace.

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Just in case you're not primarily interested in fall-intensive sport-climbing with dicey clips, and value low-weight, low ropedrag, and versatility you might consider getting good quality wiregate biners and those super-thin (8mm dyneema, supposedly got 'em at PMS) sewn runners. mammut-dyneema-slings-8mm-s.jpg A standard shoulder-length one of these tripled up is just as compact as your standard sporto draw.

 

For super-lightweight you can go with nuetrinos or these dinky Kong keylocks they carry at PMS, but those tiny things occasionally scare people when contemplating a fall.

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Chuck, what do you think of those draws that have the really short sling between the biners for trad climbing? What do they call those? Dogbones?

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I think investing in the right QDs make a big differnece.

 

Use a keylock bent gate 'biner for rope side. Bolt side matters less, but for weight reduction you can use wire gates.

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Just in case you're not primarily interested in fall-intensive sport-climbing with dicey clips, and value low-weight, low ropedrag, and versatility you might consider getting good quality wiregate biners and those super-thin (8mm dyneema, supposedly got 'em at PMS) sewn runners.

Good points ... but you forgot to mention the part about being willing to stand up to the jibing thrust upon you from the sporto crowd (possibly even your friends) if you go out clipping long runners on bolted routes where sport climbing reigns supreme (like Smith). yellaf.gif

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using an ordinary biner for the rope side is soooooo 2003

 

nowadays you need the REVOLVER

 

revolver.gif

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I perfer Faders. Smoothest clipping yet. The price is good too. I got 12 draws for about $100 bucks.

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I was wondering when someone would finally invent something like the Revolver. It's a natural progression. Supposedly, the friction through a biner is about 35% of the tension in the line versus about 15% for a pulley. If that were true, then the revolver would cut your impact forces (on natural pro) by about 20%(?). My guess is that it would be more than 20%. The length of your fall might increase proportionally, though. Geek_em8.gif

 

Revolver Description

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CBS, I think your on the right track. I wonder if it wont add to the work of the belayer. Less line tension gives a little more line to disipate impact. I would think it would reduce the line drag a bunch, great for those sew it up leaders. That would add to the energy transfered to the belay.

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That is correct. It would mean that the quality of the belay anchor becomes more important. In practice, the leader could choose whether to use a Revolver depending on the perceived quality of the placement. He'd use a conventional biner for a bomber cam, but a revolver for a tiny stopper. The Revolver concept is somewhat analogous to using a Screamer, but would take less time and weigh less.

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In practice, the leader could choose whether to use a Revolver depending on the perceived quality of the placement. He'd use a conventional biner for a bomber cam, but a revolver for a tiny stopper.

 

I've got enough things to worry about when I'm on lead w/o stressing over which biner to use on the rope end of the draw when.

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