Dr_Crash Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 (edited) Hi, I need to have 4 oval carabiners for my Mountaineers class (wiregates are okay for that class). I'm trying to find something really lightweight, and the Doval wire at 37 g looks really nice, but can it serve the exact same purpose as an oval carabiner, even though it's an "ovalized D?" If not, what's a good lightweight oval carabiner (and same question for solid gate)? Thanks in advance, drC Edit: Also, does the lack of "CE" marking means it hasn't passed certification? Edited April 20, 2004 by Dr_Crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I haven't used the dovals, but they are very light and supposedly you can make carabiner brakes and all that shizzle with them. I think I'd prefer a true oval for pulleys, tiblocs, and racking stoppers though. I have some Kong wiregate ovals , but I'm NOT very impressed with them. The gates get gummed up easily and don't spring closed completely. Periodic WD40 applications fix the problem, but it's still annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Kong makes a nice keylock oval. Dunno how much it weighs, but it's smooth and perfect for racking nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 You should get four regular solid gate ovals. They are better for racking pins, nuts, and equal for anything else. After that get wiregates for slings and racking the rest of your gear. The difference in weight is 4 x (62-45) = 68 g or a little over 2 oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Hi, I need to have 4 oval carabiners for my Mountaineers class (wiregates are okay for that class). I'm trying to find something really lightweight, and the Doval wire at 37 g looks really nice, but can it serve the exact same purpose as an oval carabiner, even though it's an "ovalized D?" If not, what's a good lightweight oval carabiner (and same question for solid gate)? Thanks in advance, drC Edit: Also, does the lack of "CE" marking means it hasn't passed certification? DR C: You asked if it (Omega Doval) can serve the exact same purpose as an oval carabiner. I think it MOST likely can, however, as a Mountie you may want to ask: Will the Mountie Police allow it (Omega Doval) to serve the exact same purpose as an oval carabiner. Many things that you pick up on CC.com are great ways of doing thing, but they are OFTEN not Mountie approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Hi Rodchester, Yes, I've thought of asking the Mountie Police (which I assume is what you call the people on the different Mountaineers committees) and the answer is likely to be: "it depends." As in, they don't care for ski mountaineering but most likely the basic climb guys will be rigid and will want solid gates true ovals anyways. catbirdseat, The weight difference would be 1 oz more than that but your point is well taken, and I know where to save the big weight: my body and my 5.5 lbs 55 l pack (compared to say an Icefall at 3.5 lbs) are more likely places to have a real effect. The Dovals look nice though. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Try doing a carabiner brake rappel with Dovals and a full size rope. That should answer your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 True, the Doval is shorter and a full sized rope in a biner biner brake has a lot of friction, but it'll work. Also, I had a chance to chat with one of the OP reps this week and asked him point blank, is the Doval okay for the biner brake? He said yes. I asked is this an official OP position? according to him, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 All I'm saying is if you are planning on learning to lead trad, your going to want to have those standard ovals anyway. Wired stoppers have been known to open up wire gates and fall off. This is less likely to happen with the standards. The spine of the standards are a perfectly round section, whereas the Dovals is an asymmetric section. As a consequence of the smaller size and the sharper spine, you'll get a slower rappel with the Dovals. As Tom says, buy the Dovals and try it in your garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arlen Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 If you plan on using a biner brake for your regular rap device, you'd prolly prefer a full size oval. But the Doval is good for general clippin' and stuff and it'll do a biner brake. You need a true oval for body weight uses like jugging or pulleys, but I use a locking biner for that anyway. Biggest problem I see with the Dovals is their 7kN open strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotch Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 BD makes a nice wiregate oval that's much lighter than the regular one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Biggest problem I see with the Dovals is their 7kN open strength. How is that? Most are either 7 or 8kN and only the D's achieve 9kN. That's not a lot of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Ramsey Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 (edited) The difference in weight is 4 x (62-45) = 68 g or a little over 2 oz. Catbird, Respectfully, this is exactly why solid-gate ovals seem like a waste of weight. Why not make due with wire-gates? So there is a slightly higher chance that a racked stopper will come off...big deal. A little extra vigilance should avoid the problem. If it is really a big deal, rack them on a positron (most people have an extra lightweight locker anyhow). Ice screws are another matter... I keep them on a locker until I'm actually climbing some ice. Losing one of them really hurts. Just a different opinion.... Edited April 22, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Do what you want. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 those dovals look pretty sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshamster Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Dovals Too small to rack a set of stoppers with, but great for draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 i've used several dovals for a couple years and i like them a lot for alpine draws. nice gate-opening clearance, light, etc. biggest drawback i've experienced is they are so symmetrical that it's hard to tell which end of the gate opens. i've gotten used to it, but sometimes my partners get frustrated with them. for the mountie class, if you really want to go with wire gates, i'd recommend the BD oval wiregates. they are more likely to be RCMP (royal cascadian mountie police) approved. re carabiner brake: who cares?! use a munter hitch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 When used as an opposed pair, they mate together quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 I just re-racked all my gear on dovals. What a weight difference! They Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SublimeSalamander Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I've never used the Doval for a biner break, but I'm otherwise satisfied with the performance. I've never had one gum up on me. I have a few racked on quick draws and I've clipped trad gear with them. If I get a chance this week end I'll try a biner break with them and let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I've had friends try them out on Biner brakes and it works but it's a bit goofy. If you look at the internal shape the Doval aren't true ovals, but ovalized D's. (they get slightly narrower towards the spine so it's not completely symmetrical) They end up adding friction to the rappel settup (like it needs any more). I haven't heard anything about it but I would also watch the rope running over the wire gates on rappel. That would make me nervous as hell. Probably best to go with the Mountie standard. Either that or borrow a few for a month and call it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Also re-racked yesterday with D-ovals. Schweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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