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dberdinka

New Route Ethics in Leavenworth

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quote:

Originally posted by JayB:

quote:

Originally posted by pope:

[qb]I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff.

This, however, is progress.

I was just kidding there, hombre. I'll have to remember to use a smiley-face next time.

 

Best Regards,

 

[ 06-19-2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: JayB ]

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Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

[QB]I chopped bolts today. [big Grin]

I think I'll chop bolts tomorrow. [big Grin]

 

[smile] Can you say: "Warm and fuzzy?" [smile]

 

 

I just got some titanium bolts from a friend at boeing and I am off to retro bolt one of your vantage choss piles, lets see if you can chop faster than i can bolt.I don't think so!!!

eat this butt muncher [Moon]

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And part two of my question: what can be done when the removal of offensive bolts does not seem to accomplish what I believe to be the desired result: the alteration of bolting practices? I have held out the Whipsaw incident as an example more than once on this board. I believe it took place over ten years ago, and I believe that it did absolutely nothing to stem the tide of bolting in Frenchmen's Coulee. In my mind, it is clear that the removal of bolts that are perceived as offensive does not solve the ongoing problem although it may be satisfying.

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Thats right when some asshole that pre places gear works the moves on a tope rope, wires the moves and claims FA on cracks( shrinking ball desease) thinks he can decide whose FA's need to be choped can eat this [Moon]

Retro sucks! Retro Sucks!

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quote:

Originally posted by mattp:

what can be done when the removal of offensive bolts does not seem to accomplish ... the alteration of bolting practices?

I think that's the crux of the biscuit for sure Matt. Your calm debate style brings to mind that old sea stack, the Old Man of Hoy, resolutely upright while lashed all about by spray. Not that I'm trying to pick fights with any of the strong opinions here about, I just wanted to tip my hat to Matt. I wish I had an answer, I'll be thinking on it for a few days while I'm out of town.

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Dennis the Menace again and I'm still awaiting an answer from Peter Puget about what is so sporting about "sport" climbing and what you guys want to change the name to, in politically correct terms, of course. Dennis

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Thanks for your support Pope I needed it. But pull you pants up the whole castrati thing is a bit out there.

 

Truly Mattp is trying to stear the ship steady and yet I wonder is it worth it? Over one year ago I began posting in a series of posts being as steady as Mattp. Someone even told me once "Peter your nice guy methods will get you know where." After awhile I agreed but still remained reactive.

 

How many routes are there at the Pearly Gates? 30, 40, 50? So two have suspect bolts. Hardly an epidemic. If more people posted here then perhaps we'd have more of a consensus. As it is One man shouts witch and the rest scream burn her!

 

The first post on this thread stated something to the effect of "I'm not trying to start a flame war" Are we really to believe that?

 

Syz writes:that Viktor is bolting cracks expresssly to create a market for new books. Later he changes his story. Did he ever talk to Viktor?

 

I say Mattp send a pm to Viktor ask him how many negative comments he has recieved and out of those how many came from cc.com. I bet almost none have. But how many jerks have come online and slammed him and/or his friends. Hey listen up guys those insults are personal and they aren't limited to those in Leavenworth. Mattp, I await your report. Pope will you have sent him a note with your concerns? I doubt it. Sad. Sad. Sad.

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WELL I JUST NUKED THE WHOLE PLACE, SO WE CAN START BACK FROM GROUND ZERO IN 5,OOO YEARS.

 

Georgea.jpg

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quote:

Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Puget:

...just how tall are you guys? My pop sensibility says smaller than average.

 

So come on fess up how tall are you? If I had met you I wouldn't be asking.

 

Average US male 5' 10" I bet your shorter!

Well, Kerns, I am 5'10".

Did someone let the cat out of the bag?

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Retro:

 

I mean no disrespect by using those terms. But when you decide to take the law into your own hands, when you state that you don't care what anybody else thinks, and when you say you are going to keep going back and removing the offending bolts if they reappear, I call that vigilantism. And when you and others talk in terms that sound like a holy war against excessive bolting, and when you and they suggest that they are showing great leadership and trying to enlighten the uninformed masses, I call that a heroic crusade. Keep up the good fight – I mean that because you make a lot of good points -- but if you are going to be such an aggressive and vocal advocate you will have to accept the fact that not everybody likes everything about what you are doing.

 

Matt

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quote:

Originally posted by Crackbolter:

Did someone let the cat out of the bag?

More like someone let the crap out of the bag.

Now I know just how much his shit stinks.

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mattp you say "take the law into his own hands".

 

I would suggest, in the continued absence of gun toting Rock Cops kinda like Larry The Nut Tool who would arrest nefarious perpetrators bolting cracks, that it is up to the climbers as a group both to police themselves, and to deal with ethical transgressions (LAWBREAKERS in your metaphor) by doing what everyone agrees should be done namely removing the bolts from beside the cracks.

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Report on Larry the Nut Tool-

 

Gaper car without park pass parked in SCW parking lot for an entire weekend untouched by Larry the Tool. Maybe he took a weekend off. [big Grin]

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quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

Report on Larry the Nut Tool-

 

Gaper car without park pass parked in SCW parking lot for an entire weekend untouched by Larry the Tool. Maybe he took a weekend off.
[big Grin]

The strong odor of horsecock scared him off.

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I think Mitch has offended just about every climber that I admire. The cheese stands alone on this one. I always thought that there was a sense of comrodery with all of the crag caretakers. Mitch, are you out to change this philosophy?

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Dru -

 

Should we see if we can get peace-officer Larry to issue tickets for excessive or irresponsible bolting? I bet he could be good at this -- if we could get him to leave his cruiser and hike up the mountainsides. Then our canyon could be saved and we wouldn't have to fear encounters of larry kind in the parking lot because he'd be hiding in the bushes up at the Pearly Gates or somewhere where he could surely solve the crime of the century.

 

I agree with you that it is up to us to act, and I indicated my support for some bolt removal -- like the principal that bolts do not belong where natural protection exists, I believe that nearly everybody who has participated in this debate agrees that there are at least some offensive bolts in the Icicle Creek canyon that should be removed. What we're talking about is how to undertake such a program and how to talk about it, before and after.

 

Matt

 

[ 06-19-2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Crackbolter:

I think Mitch has offended just about every climber that I admire. The cheese stands alone on this one. I always thought that there was a sense of comrodery with all of the crag caretakers. Mitch, are you out to change this philosophy?

You need a hug, or what?

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quote:

Originally posted by mattp:

Dru -

 

Should we see if we can get peace-officer Larry to issue tickets for excessive or irresponsible bolting? I bet he could be good at this -- if we could get him to leave his cruiser and hike up the mountainsides. Then our canyon could be saved and we wouldn't have to fear encounters of larry kind in the parking lot because he'd be hiding in the bushes up at the Pearly Gates or somewhere where he could surely solve the crime of the century.

[laf]

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Dennis, I believe you did as much or more to steer this discussion into the toilet than anybody. Why would you call Puget an asshole -- because you don't agree with him? And what is it that you don't agree with? He has repeatedly stated that bolts do not belong next to cracks -- isn't this your main point? -- but he argues that one cannot blame it all on generation x, Viktor's motivation to sell guidebooks, or the simple fact that everyone else in the world is an asshole.

 

In another thread, Peter says he is signing off the board. I don't like the personal attack and I was sorry to see him start talking about penis size and so forth, but I will be sorry to see him go. As long as there are those who like to spew insults and hatred in the name of saving the rock, this board needs people like Puget or it is in danger of becoming a forum for a handful of guys to preach to theirselves.

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