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dberdinka

New Route Ethics in Leavenworth

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So let me get this straight, you guys are going cragging with baseball bats and crowbars? You are truly fucked up! [Mad]

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quote:

Originally posted by pope:

Dude, you've obviously learned reading comprehension from Lambone, or maybe you've been taking logic lessons from Peter Pounder. How else may one explain the way you seem to have pulled that assertion out of your arse? My comments on gym climbing have been mostly positive. In fact, I was a member of a climbing gym for years, and I enjoyed the fitness and (occasionally) the social exchanges. Checking out the exotic talent made the exorbitant membership fees worth the price. I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff. To bad it never works out that way.

Ugh. Yes, your comments concerning sport-climbing, sport-climbers, climbing gyms, and the people who frequent them have been overwhelmingly positive and I have grossly misrepresented the tenor of your commentary on this site by suggesting anything to the contrary. My apologies.

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Watch out Harmon, I hear those dastardly young sport climbers are importing some french specialist talent to deal with you...

 

poodle_card.jpg

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quote:

Originally posted by pope:

I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff.

This, however, is progress.

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quote:

Originally posted by JayB:

quote:

Originally posted by pope:

I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff.

This, however, is progress.

Progress? It is entirely consistent with what I've been saying all along. Thanks for paying attention. I wish to revise my theory about your inane comments: your learning disability is either related to difficulty with reading comprehension or attention span limitations. You seem to read what you want to see, as opposed to what's on the screen.

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quote:

Originally posted by anthonysmarocks:

Hey Butt Buddies, a womans point of view is this:

My man packs a gun that drills deep. I love my

bolts. Sport Climbing is like Sport Sex, it is

harder, faster, deeper, and I don't have to

pack a shitload of unused gear to be hard.

 

Pack your crow bar, 'cuz you are shooting blanks.

You need to get tested for AIDS. [Eek!]

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Yea slaphappy, Do you own a drill? If so come join the party. Maybe this'll turn out to be your climber's equivilent of the WTO riots... only this time the police won't be as nice. Dennis

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hey dennis- did a little dinner recon this evening, got some info that I wanted to share with you. The man that bolted the routes that I hate at flagstone, is in his 40's. Is that gen X?

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Pope -

Classy as usual. And again, as usual, inane as ever. With Retro and his sidekick you guys rival the Three Stooges.

 

The funny thing is that the consensus seems to be that everyone wants to limit any bolting by protectable cracks and yet you guys want to make a nasty conflict. Sad. [Frown] Sad. [Frown] Sad. [Frown] It does however reinforce my point about the argument being more important than the cause.

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quote:

Originally posted by sk:

hey dennis- did a little dinner recon this evening, got some info that I wanted to share with you. The man that bolted the routes that I hate at flagstone, is in his 40's. Is that gen X?

Oh, and those bold leads by the lions of yesteryear? Mostly, done when they were young.

 

Typically, in a bolt war, the real loser is the rock you purport to revere. Put 'em in, pull 'em out, put 'em back in, pull 'em back out, ad nauseum. I guess in all the hyperbole and posture (both sides of course), I'm not clear on what bolts you propose to pull. Are you just going after egregiously placed bolts adjacent to natural pro, or are you out to remove bolt protected face climbs? One might be an effective statement, but the other is likely to get brickbats from both camps.

 

But alas, even I tire of this flapdoodle. Do what you want, but post a TR after the fact. If you want to be bold visionaries, don't sneak around like a terrorist, take responsibility for your actions, and real names too if you please...

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I, for one, call bull shit altogether Pungent Peter. Your lame asses have had enough access to our side of the state, and done enough damage that many over here are sick of it and ready to kick your dumb asses if you even show on this side of the range. Don't come over here with anything less than an apologetic attitude and leave your damned drills and bolts at home. Dennis

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quote from JayB: "Most sport-climbers/gym-climbers that I know do care quite a bit about the environment and, by extentsion, the rocks themselves." "A bit," is about right. That must be why so many are rampantly and permanently altering a non-renewable resouce for ever other subsequent generation. You know, it may be that the world will not blow itself to hell, and I'd like my children the chance to experience some pristene areas not raped by the technological imperative and massive egos. Dennis

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quote:

Originally posted by Off White:

Typically, in a bolt war, the real loser is the rock you purport to revere.

Just which typical bolt war are you referring to?

 

quote:

Are you just going after egregiously placed bolts adjacent to natural pro, or are you out to remove bolt protected face climbs?

Bolts where natural protection is adequate.

 

quote:

Do what you want, but post a TR after the fact.

Today I removed 3/4 of the bolts on a naturally protectable face climb. My 5-year old son got tired before we could finish. I will post the particulars after it is done.

 

quote:

If you want to be bold visionaries, don't sneak around like a terrorist, take responsibility for your actions, and real names too if you please...

I have no interest in being a bold visionary. The vision is not mine, it has been spelled out a long time ago by much greater and more eloquent climbers than me. Read: Robinson, Chouinard, Messner. I, like many others, just happen to know right from wrong; and like few others don't have a problem doing something about it.

 

I have no problem taking responsibility for my actions. You want my real name? You can have it and my address too for posting the name of the DDD retro-bolter and the name of the person that put the bolt on the route named Pearly Gates and the name of the person that put two bolts on the route to the right of it after I had already done the first ascent. I want their names so that they can receive the public mud-slinging that they deserve. Or you can just ask around, people know who I am.

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By the way, Off White, I do go on the inter-idiot-net by my real name and, as you already know, I live in Wenatchee which shouldn't be too hard to find. (It's close to Leavenworth)Dennis

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Mitch:

 

I was thinking of the bolt war in Tucson ca. 85-86, the one in the Valley where hangers got mashed over, I believe there was one in City of Rocks, and I know there were some in Colorado, but I'm weak in that history. Tucson was the only one I was present for, but its a longer topic than I have time for this morning. That one wasn't actually a bad model, so I'll write about it later if anyone is interested.

 

Sounds like you're thinking about what you're pulling, and you have a specific target: bolt proliferation adjacent to natural protection. I think you'll find a lot more supporters than if you were just out on a vendetta against the bolt in general.

 

The TR request is just that I, and I assume other people, wanna know. If what you're doing is making a statement, its gotta be clear and public to be effective. I'm not asking for names because I want to humiliate anyone, I just don't think you should let the issue of anonymity overshadow what you're up to. Its a good point about the bolt placers not being public, that's mostly due to delay in guidebook publishing and no local forum for route reporting that is widely embraced. I think they should own up to their actions too.

 

By "bold" I refer to the act of dismantling protection rather than a climbing style. It may be sad that taking direct action and responsibilty for that action is bold and visionary, but I think its true.

 

And btw, Off White actually is my name, not an avatar. Rather, its a widely used nickname, but I cash checks made out that way and I've had mail arrive addressed just to "Off White, Tenino WA" Don't try that now though, I have no confidence in the intelligence of my new mail carrier...

 

Well, hell, I gotta work. Cheers.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Harmon:

Your lame asses have had enough access to our side of the state

Just as sport bolters come in all ages, they also come from all parts of the state. There's a pretty large pod of them on "your" side in Spokane, aren't there? And I'm sure everyone in Der is not as pure as the driven snow...

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quote:

Originally posted by Off White:

quote:

Originally posted by sk:

hey dennis- did a little dinner recon this evening, got some info that I wanted to share with you. The man that bolted the routes that I hate at flagstone, is in his 40's. Is that gen X?

Oh, and those bold leads by the lions of yesteryear? Mostly, done when they were young.

 

Typically, in a bolt war, the real loser is the rock you purport to revere. Put 'em in, pull 'em out, put 'em back in, pull 'em back out, ad nauseum. I guess in all the hyperbole and posture (both sides of course), I'm not clear on what bolts you propose to pull. Are you just going after egregiously placed bolts adjacent to natural pro, or are you out to remove bolt protected face climbs? One might be an effective statement, but the other is likely to get brickbats from both camps.

 

But alas, even I tire of this flapdoodle. Do what you want, but post a TR after the fact. If you want to be bold visionaries, don't sneak around like a terrorist, take responsibility for your actions, and real names too if you please...

Off white- The bolts have been placed on an infieror route on a face between two steller routes. It was bolted on a grid and done in the past year and a half some time, by a man who is 45ish and has been climbing for 5 or so years. I will not pull the bolts. how ever I would realy love to see them pulled. The route is a total pain in the ass. to climb 30 feet you pass about 15 bolts.

 

I am not a terrorist. I am not 'earth first', what I would love is for the man who made the obviouse mistake to pull his own route, and fill it. Like that will ever happen!

 

michelle(shelly)krueger [Wink]

 

[ 06-19-2002, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: sk ]

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Off, what your missing is that these guys are not the valiant noble guard protecting our resources but a collection of jerks. For example, at least a year ago many suggested that when bolts are placed next to crack they simply be removed and the bolter notified of the action and possibly a report of the action posted here without the grand hysterics. Kinda similar to your recent suggestion. Somehow these guys don’t want to be responsible and do that. They would rather rant and rave. No one in this thread has argued for the bolts or even against their removal and yet these small minded guys start acting like idiots. (eg making threats) (By the way Dwayner got me going on the “Pop Psychologist” bit and that last comment inspires me to ask: just how tall are you guys? My pop sensibility says smaller than average. Let us know. Stop looking down I was referring your height!) In previous posts I mentioned that last year I removed a load of bolts installed on protectable yet almost always top roped crag. This action got the message back to the errant bolter without the bravado. He stopped his rascally actions. I would note that before he bolted I told him what I would do if he did.

 

These guys believe that by creating controversy they can have their moment in the sun.

 

Regards,

PP

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The truth is that unsightly bolts exist everywhere. Many of them are chicken bolts. I think that some routes at Trundle Dome and Upper 8 Mile Buttress should be chopped. The one in particular at Trundle Dome has a stupid start. You can easily walk around to the obvious "line" ramp on the left where they should have put the route up from in the first place. Then up higher on this route you get to toprope the crux with a bolt. All that when protection placements exist just below the crux. Chicken bolt.

 

It can easily be argued that some bolts are ok but people just do not know where to draw the line. [Roll Eyes]

 

Bring on the bolt removal and chopping pals! Thanks to the guys removing bolts at Clamshell Cave.

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quote:

Originally posted by Peter Puget:

Off, what your missing is that these guys are not the valiant noble guard protecting our resources but a collection of jerks.

Have we met? It must have been more memorable for you than for me.

 

quote:

...just how tall are you guys? My pop sensibility says smaller than average.

My pop sensibility tells me you are wearin' danskins and sportin' a woody (at least when Dwayner's around.) Go hug yourself.

 

quote:

These guys believe that by creating controversy they can have their moment in the sun.


Assuming that is the case, it seems you have a problem with that. What does your pop sensibility say about that?

 

This guy believes that a little uproar gets noticed by more climbers and the message is spread more effectively to more people.

 

Honestly the is entertaining and I enjoy a good arguement. It is easy when I am right. But you are laboriously long winded and wordy and I really don't understand any of your issues except:

quote:

Off, what your missing is that these guys are not the valiant noble guard protecting our resources but a collection of jerks...

...These guys believe that by creating controversy they can have their moment in the sun.

 

Regards,

PP

[hugging himself because no one else cares]

[big Grin][Moon][Moon][Moon][Moon][Moon][Moon][big Grin]

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So where is the video of the Dwayner-Peter love in from Pube Club last night?

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