Matt Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I am your typical gumbie stuck in the 5.10 rut and would like to start improving. I've been climbing 5.10s for maybe 10 years, and I mean I've lead stuff like Davis-Holland-- you know, real 5.10, but can't seem to tackle any 5.11s without hanging like a mofo. What climbs would you do to train for becoming a 5.11 climber? I want to put together a tick list of NW climbs to do, kind of like the "Road to Astroman" list. What is you favorite 5.10+ or 5.11 multipitch route in the NW? What is our "Astroman"? Side note: I can pull down V4 at Stone Gardens so SG V4= Index 5.10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 you might find this thread an interesting read: The 5.10 Barrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt45 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I'm in a similar place, trying to get comfortable on 5.11 trad. I haven't read through the "5.10 barrier" post. But here are my random assorted thoughts: I use the same strategy that got me to 5.10 trad. Back then I would do lots of 8's, a reasonable number of 9's, and the occasional 10-. Now I do lots of 9's, mostly try to climb 10's, and occasionally jump on an 11-. Sometimes I will try to lead an 11, get my butt kicked, and set a toprope. Then I'll do 5 or more laps to convince myself I'm solid with the climbing focusing on the smoothest technique possible, with minimal pulling on the arms. Then, go back and actually lead the thing. The key for me is to not modify my climbing style when on lead instead of TR. eg overgripping, using poor footwork, etc when on the sharp end. I have found that the truly outstanding trad climbers are those who are able to climb on lead with the same technique as on toprope. I think that 5.11 trad is a challenging progression, and different from moving to 5.10, in that it requires finesse in gear placement, especially trusting smaller gear placed from technical stances. Many 5.10's offer comfy stances for the pro, and the placements tend to be larger. But this does not seem to be the case so often on more difficult climbs. For me, getting a lot of mileage on easier climbs always helps for the experience with climbing movement, gear placement, and trusting the gear. After all if you can rack up a resume of 30 or 40 5.10+ pitches, an 11- isn't going to be so bad physically (although psychological barriers can certainly persist). When I am in the zone where I think more about the climbing than the gear, I tend to climb much better. I KNOW that when I get on a climb and think to myself "OK this is 5.11 trad, it's going to be a push..." I climb much worse and find the moves much more difficult, even when climbing moves that end up being just 5.9 or 5.10. Also I don't think that Stone Gardens boulder problems have any relation to most trad climbing. However the Stone Gardens cracks DO relate a lot to Index. Do endless laps up & down on their artificial cracks, focusing on smoothness & footwork, and Index climbs may feel easier. In my opinion, the "essential" PNW multi-pitch route is the Grand Wall. It's pretty consistently 5.10, I think 11a is a bit of a stretch (this grade applies to just one or two strenuous but secure and well-protected lieback moves on the Sword pitch). Freeway is supposed to be a great multipitch 5.11 and is my next local goal. Other climbs that stick out in my mind are Serenity/Sons at Yosemite (solid 5.10 crack climbing), and Cloud Tower at Red Rocks (well-protected 5.10 & 5.11 cracks). And, I have found the underlying principle to be not stressing too much about grades, and doing whatever seems like the most fun. So I'll go do long moderates, or go bouldering, or try some 12- sport routes, or whatever. Almost invariably, mixing it up seems to help my climbing among all disciplines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I'm in a similar place, trying to get comfortable on 5.11 trad. 5.11 trad aint suposed to be comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 forgetting the guidebook at home may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchfest Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the idea of climbing a pitch clean from top to bottom and the pure satisfaction that it brings, but for me, a weekend warrior,(at best) who gives a fuck if you hang on the rope!! Are you posing for a mag?? Are you looking to impress your co-workers?...If not, then just go out and climb. I agree with J_B, leave the book at home, you'll climb better, faster, stronger if your mind isn't secrcetly thinking about the grade. It doesn't work for me, but maybe it will for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 I had this problem a few years back, 'cept it was the .11 barrier. I hate training, so I started doing yoga rigorously. Within 6 months I was climbing 5.12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trundle Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 How did you get started with the Yoga? Resources? I'm interested, but know nothing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt45 Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the idea of climbing a pitch clean from top to bottom and the pure satisfaction that it brings, but for me, a weekend warrior,(at best) who gives a fuck if you hang on the rope!! Are you posing for a mag?? Are you looking to impress your co-workers?...If not, then just go out and climb. Depends on the person, but for me it's all about getting on the coolest routes. For example right now I figure that if I can't usually onsight 11a single pitch gear routes, then I won't be able to try multi-pitch 11c's. And there are a lot of climbs at this grade that are supposed to be super fun. The Rostrum, Astroman, etc...plus long 5.11's may have poorly protected climbing at 5.9 or 5.10. Consequently being very confident that you will NOT fall while climbing up to a certain level may lead to peace of mind (and gain access to a lot of quality 'scary' routes). And the more comfortable I am on say 5.10, the faster I can climb consecutive pitches of 5.10 which may be handy for climbing long routes in what I consider the most enjoyable style (eg the Nose). Having the most fun in climbing in each of these ways requires pushing the grades up, which at first may require going for 'no-falls' single pitch ascents at a more difficult grade before gaining enough experience to simply onsight at the grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Climb more. Get stronger. Climb harder. werd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Well said colt45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Climb more. Get stronger. Climb harder. Climb more. Injure self. Climb less. Get weaker. Climb weaker. Climb more. Get stronger... ad infinitum/nauseum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 there is a difference between climbing a lot and climbing to the point where you stop taking care of your body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Matt, There is a little to be said for the "bouldering " mentality. Climb short hard stuff and get good I'm not into climbing hard, I'm into climbing for fun. So I don't usually push it much and am comfey at the 5.10ish when I go there. This past summer I had one of those epiphanies. I was leading a summer camp class and one of the kids asked "how would you climb that?" It was a pretty stiff 40' - 50' pitch, I was kinda showin off for the kiddies and kinda takin my one shot at not coaching but climbing. I grabbed a top rope and then move by move told and showed them how to climb in a thought out manner and took breaks if I need it really thinkin through my technique. That night the guide said that I had done a 5:12 Point is the advice of not takin the guide, tell yourself your comfortable , and go for it, really works. I'd lie if I said I wasn't a little worked over but I was stoked when I found out I had jumped 5.10 to 5.12 even if the guide was off a little. Go climb like your good and have a blast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Point is the advice of not takin the guide, tell yourself your comfortable , and go for it, really works. I second this. Not only does leaving the guide book at home open new possibilities, it's fun to spend the afternoon with friends grading routes based on how they climb, as opposed to just accepting the rating in the guide book. I find to that I am more willing to hop on something if it looks 'doable' than I might if I know the "official" grade and I think I'm not climbing at that grade that day. This will sound silly, but I love hopping on boulder problems or routes in the gym before the routesetter tapes up the little sheet with the really clever route name. It's cool to look at the route or problem, guess the grade, and then hop on to see if you're in the right neighborhood. Then, in a day or two, you can see how far off your rating was from the routesetter's rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 you might find this thread an interesting read: The 5.10 Barrier I still suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasdair Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Point is the advice of not takin the guide, tell yourself your comfortable , and go for it, really works. I second this. Not only does leaving the guide book at home open new possibilities, it's fun to spend the afternoon with friends grading routes based on how they climb, as opposed to just accepting the rating in the guide book. I find to that I am more willing to hop on something if it looks 'doable' than I might if I know the "official" grade and I think I'm not climbing at that grade that day. This will sound silly, but I love hopping on boulder problems or routes in the gym before the routesetter tapes up the little sheet with the really clever route name. It's cool to look at the route or problem, guess the grade, and then hop on to see if you're in the right neighborhood. Then, in a day or two, you can see how far off your rating was from the routesetter's rating. Agreed. Last week in Yosemite I did not have the guide and jumped on a bolted line that I thought was difficult, hung a couple of times but did all the moves without much dificulty. Found out later that the climb was rated 12b/c. Due to the fact I have never climbed a 12 before I would never have gotten on this if I had had the guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gripped Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Boulder hard stuff with the best pad people... Make sure they call you a little beee-otch if you jump off a route before you fall off. You will get better FAST. Climb routes with folks that push you... If you go towards the 5.10c, and you've been doing 10's for the last 3 weeks, then your partner should just say, "no, get on that 11b over there" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Gripped is on to something here, bouldering making you stronger!? hell yeah...... Last summer I was stuck at a certain grade. So I spent july-august going to squamish with really strong people and solely climbing what they were. I didn't send anything, but I gained experience on harder problems and you get a lot stronger quicker. There are lots of older people especially who climb something like 11b or v4 really consistently. In that they can do every route or problem of that grade. Yet they never try harder stuff and therefore aren't climbing v6 or 12b. go get your ass kicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'm with Gripped and Distel on this one 100%. I am new to climbing and I was having problems getting to 5.10 climbs. I just couldn't do it. I spent a lot of time bouldering with good "coaches" and I gained the strength and technique to do the more exciting moves on the longer routes. It also helps your confidence when you can relate a tricky move on an airy lead to something you were able to do just a few feet off the ground. I did notice that I lost some stamina when I was focusing on bouldering. The 30 seconds of super-pump on a route doesn't help much for an extended push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cman Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 go for sport climbing before bouldering. get on some hard climbs to increase your strength and mental stamina for hard moves. get on something steep and take a fall or two. i am currently trying this strategy so i will let you know if it really works. i haven't taken any falls, outside of the gym, but i plan to. seems to me like all the best climbers i know push it and take falls, when it's safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 you've never fallen outside of the gym?????? you need to get on harder routes than. If you are looking for a climb with clean falls go to Crack Babies at Smith. Steep, all good holds with a couple big moves, pumpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 It probably sounds stupid, but I didn't realize it until I experienced it: Climbing higher grades is simply harder. I hung out at the 5.9 range for quite a while, and when Ifinally started leading 10's consistently, I was amazed at how much harder the climbing was! Duh! But the point is that the step from 5.8 to 5.9 was mostly nerves and confidence, whereas the step up to 5.10 was more an issue of conscously working/pulling harder. I found myself in more situation of "I don't think I can do this" followed by doing something hard and sucseeding.Probably not useful to you, but just an experience of mine. By the way, nice thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 (edited) I can't lead 5.10,(okay YET ) but I have found that all the time I have beem puting in bouldering has helped with my first bolt issues, and I am stronger. and max I agree, I think there is a big JUMP in dificulty between 5.9 and 5.10 that does not exisit between 5.8 and 5.9 Edited March 31, 2004 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerie Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 max I agree, I think there is a big JUMP in dificulty between 5.9 and 5.10 that does not exisit between 5.8 and 5.9 yeah, and wait till you go to J-tree!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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