letsroll Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I am looking into purchasing tools. Not sure what to get, size, shape, brand. I have been looking at the Stanly Alpine Manta tool, titanium nice . The cost seems to be better than others as well. manta ice tool What shape do peole use, straight, clearence shaft or the s curve? Has anybody used the Manta tool, and what was your experience. Should I try and rent first to see what I like? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Definetly rent and borrow ice tools before you buy. Pick a few you think you like and try them out. Search for ice tools on this website and read up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Should I try and rent first to see what I like? Definitely. Or you'll end up buying what someone else likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I really like the BD Cobras for everything...mixed, waterfall ice, alpine...very nice set of tools, you should see if you rent those and try them out sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Ramsey Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 FWIW, here is what I use, for the PNW-- alpine: BD shrikes, straight shaft, BD lockdown leashes waterfall: BD rages, BD android leashes But you could probably just as easily use a high-end tool (e.g., Cobra, Aztar, etc) for both alpine and waterfall ice climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 i switched to ergos. i think leashless is the way to go, even for a novice. i don't buy this crap- alpine or ice tools. they all work the same. if you are into slogging (up snow to 50 degrees) just use an ice axe. for everything else use technical tools. good tool is bd viper. charlet is going to start adding a pinky fang for their next season tools. trango is making replacable handle tool, so you can climb leashless or with leashes- i wish both bd or cm started doing the same. if i were you i would hold off till the fall. the season is almost over, why spend money and not use your toys for another 6 or 7 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I have a pair of BD Shrikes with the bent shaft. I am happy with them for water ice and for some alpine. The type of bend in the shaft (At the hand as opposed to at the head) does make it hard to plunge the axe when self-belaying or probing. I wish I had one old fashioned alpine hammer at 55cm with a straight shaft. You can get the BD Shrike on sale cheap right now. They take most any BD pick (except for the VERY old original X-Tool picks). BD Picks can be purchased just about anywhere, at least in N.America. Shrike Sale At that price they are hard to beat. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 That (the Shrike) might make a good introductory tool, but is pretty old school as far as design. I think I would go with something like a BD Viper, BD Cobra, Quark, Alp Wing, or any one of the "clearance shaft" tools, if I had a choice and money was less of an object. They just climb better. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I tried a friend's set of quarks (I've used BD black prophets for the past few years) and it was like a different sport. almost felt like cheating! I will be sticking with my prophets for financial reasons though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Pro Mountain Sports used to rent tools and such and then apply your rental fees to the purchace of your own set. I am not sure if that is still the case, but it worked out well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_beanntan Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Simond Naja's, light, aggressive pick with small grip, great leash. In most cases they will climb ice mushhhhhhhhhh better then their owner. similar is the new anacondas........ nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 User of this site (at least me.. who knows the rest of you might be physic) will be able to much more definitively answer this question if you detail your intentions/aspirations with these tools: Alpine or waterice only or mixed climbing (or all three)? If alpine, plan on plunging the shaft? Will you carry a third tool? Plan on going leashless or removable leashes? Hand size (big, small, just right)? Bigger or smaller person (i.e. are you strong enough to swing heavy tools)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Ramsey Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Pro Mountain Sports used to rent tools and such and then apply your rental fees to the purchace of your own set. I am not sure if that is still the case, but it worked out well for me. This is a good idea. From experience, I'm pretty sure you could get Feathered Friends to do this, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackY Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I also had a chance to try a pair of quarks this year. What an amazing difference from my pulsars. The quarks are an order of magnitude more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtguide Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Check out the November,2003 issue of Climbing mag,p.68 for a very good review of current technical ice tools.And golllee,whaddaya know,Editor's Choice was---CM Quark.Anyhow,it grades all the others reviewed,gives all the tech data.If you can't locate a hardcopy issue I'll bet they have it online at their website: climbing.com. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 i like grivel's tools but it looks like i'm in the minority. it came down to the top machines or quarks for me and i went with the top machines and love them. these are great for small hands!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Forget the marketing hype and Climbing / R&I reviews. I'd wager a fair sum of money that the "editor's choice" awards are in direct correlation with the company that spends the most advertising $$$ in their magazine. Go somewhere that either rents tools, or to an ice fest where you can demo some tools (Valdez is coming up soon). The size of your hands, what you plan on climbing, and how strong you are will all be a factor. The only way to get around all the hype is to go swing them side by side and see which is best FOR YOU. Don't believe the hype that you need the top shelf goods, especially when starting out. Dudes were climbing WI6 with 60cm wooden shafts twenty five years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I figure any of the mid to high-end tools are great, what you like best will be based on personal preference. I like my Rages, but I don't know anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 You didn't say, nor did anyone ask you, what sort of ice climbing you planned to do. Your experience level and involvement in the sport also would influence your choice of tools. Everyone is assuming you are into steep water ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsroll Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 After reading through the comments it seems to be very important as to what I will be using them for. Water ice, alpine, and so on. I have not tried WI climbing yet, but I am very interested in it and will be trying it next year. Right now I am looking for tools for alpine use on routes greater than 50 degree. If I could save money and do a little research ahead of time and get tools that would work well in both situations I would go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Straight shaft tools work fine for alpine ice and cost less too. I don't think there is a tool that is ideal for both steep water ice and alpine use, though I am sure some would disagree. If you bought one straight shaft tool you could use that with a good technical axe on steep alpine ice up to 50 degrees. If you added one bent shaft tool, you could get started on water ice. As you graduate to harder WI, you'll want two bent shaft tools. Long term you may end up with four or more tools. Short term, try to put off buying and borrow or rent as long as you can until you determine what you like in a tool and what you like to do- alpine or water ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I have never been a talented ice climber though I do climb waterfalls and I've been climbing alpine routes for many years. I'm not into the latest gear, so take my advice for what it is. You are seeing here that everyone has their own favorite tools based on some nebulous combination of their own climbing preferences, their friends' preferences, and the latest trend in climbing magazine, along with what was on sale when they went to the store. I think Srikland and Glasgow, in particular, have made a couple of good points. For general mountaineering, don't get an ice climbing tool but, on the other hand, the distinction between ice and alpine tools starts to break down if you are going to pursue steep technical routes. (For example, I like my Grivel light machine for waterfalls and a second tool on alpine climbs.) Don't believe the hype about the latest "top shelf" tools, and if you possibly can you should go out and swing the tools for yourself. However, I'd recommend you consider that the performance of a tool on one particular outing in one type of snow or ice conditions does not necessarily indicate how much you will like it elsewhere. Remember, too, that people were indeed climbing very technical alpine routes and even waterfalls with straight-shafed wooden ice axes and 30 cm hammers before any of these modern tools were developed. The fact is, your tool selection is not as important as many people make it out to be. Good tools help, and they make things easier, but they rarely make the difference between success and failure on any given outing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackY Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Good points by all. I've always been a fan of using skill, determination, strength, and shear will over technical aids. But in defense of modern gear, it does open up more possibilities for those of us that have to spend the week flying a desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaterfall Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I would say is to at least swing as many tools as possible before buying. They are way too expensive to get stuck wishing that you had a different set. That said. I love the Charlet Quarks. They swing way better than any other tool... for me. I found the BDs to feel 'dead' when placing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 Hey! I asked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.