AaronB Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 My first lead ever, First pitch of "White punks on Dope" needles CA.. Has a hanging belay with no bolts.. I just put in about 7 pieces and looped a huge sling through all of them.. When my partner got to the belay.. it was his shit I smelled.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 any thing at vantage.. there some bomber placements but when ur new to trad and u watch ur last 2 peices fall out and what was a 10-15 ft becomes like 30+ -posible deck u can almost smell the shit runing down ur leg, at the same time the crack ar very good to learn on if u climb way below ur level and watch what causes the cams to walk, and fall out, also good for learning jaming tech. btw long runners seem to solve the problem completely Contrary to my initial expectations, this has turned into a pretty nice thread. Wrlwind, I know exactly what you're talking about. Good observations! All I can say about Vantage is that when you go there for the first time, play it very conservatively until you make the necessary adaptations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 In reading these, I'm not sure it's the route that matters so much as the ineptitude of the newbie climber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Yeah, but most newbies will be inept by definition. There are safer places to practice your ineptitude than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 There isn't any thing wrong with any of these routes. It's all stories about people who got in over their heads. It's instructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Obviously. But to say everything at Vantage is going to turn into a newbie epic, for instance, is a bit much. Party In Your Pants offers two cracks to work with, plenty of gear options, and bolted anchors. Kids sport climb at The Feathers. Â Just saying that it would be beneficial to the thread to separate location from operator error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 i wouldn't even take an experienced climber to that vantage pile let alone a newbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Any route on the N. Face of Der Eiger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Jeezus, I would never take my kids to Vantage. There's just too much rockfall there. Â The first time I ever went (roped) rock climbing was at Pinnacles. I pulled off a whole bunch of rock. I didn't know that you had to be careful about that kind of thing. I also didn't know instinctively to yell, "rock" when I did it. Just missed creaming some guy. Some of the rock hit his foot. He was really pissed. Â Thus, I think newbies at Vantage = bad idea. Edited March 5, 2004 by chucK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I didn't think Vantage was that bad when I went -- and at the time I was a newbie who had never been there before. Apparently, I was lucky to walk away unscathed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I've heard of newbies getting lost for an hour trying to find Givler's Dome; probably not a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 It seems like people have this almost superstitious fear of rockfall at Vantage. It's as though they think that anywhere they stand, a rock can just magically come down and hit them in the head. Perhaps in rare cases that could happen, but it usually is triggered by climbers. What I have found is that if you pay attention to what you are doing and take note of where your climber is and where other climbers are you can belay in a place that is relatively safe. If there are climbers next to a route I am interested in, I usually won't climb it because it is difficult to deal with rockfall potential from two different sources. Â Now kids are another thing. They are all over the place and they definitely don't have the presence of mind to stay away from dangerous positions. So no, I wouldn't take young children to Sunshine Wall, but I would take them to the Feathers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 And I've heard of newbies projecting Classic Crack. Probably not a good one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 And I've heard of newbies projecting Classic Crack. Probably not a good one either. Â At least you can't fuck up the approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I was almost hit by pigeon induced rockfall last time I was at Vantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 At least you can't fuck up the approach. Â Well, I screwed it up the second time, too. Just not as bad. What is that, some kind of an alpine approach? There should be signs or something. Â Speaking of which, per your request, they installed pointers on the popular routes at Smith so you don't ledge out on easiest, most heavily trafficked multi-pitch route there again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 At least you can't fuck up the approach. Â Well, I screwed it up the second time, too. Just not as bad. What is that, some kind of an alpine approach? There should be signs or something. Â Speaking of which, per your request, they installed pointers on the popular routes at Smith so you don't ledge out on easiest, most heavily trafficked multi-pitch route there again. Â Good, then I don't have to spray paint a huge fucking arrow if I ever go back there. I'm thinking about taking GPS just in case, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Catbird, I am surprised if you have spent much time at Vantage and you don't have a keen awareness that it is more prone to rockfall than any other climbing area in Washington. No place else in the State do I avoid setting a belay right below a climb and there is no place else where I spend much time worrying about just sitting on the ground near where others are climbing. No place. Â Call me superstitious, I guess, but the number of rockfall accidents there almost certainly exceeds all other rock climbing area in the state combined. I think you would be doing folks a disservice if you in any way suggest that "it is no big deal." Â It is manageable, but it is a serious issue that requires careful management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Happens all the time in Yosemite. Some selfish yob decides to take 2-3 of his buddies on a climb....typically a classic like Nutcracker, and bungs up the whole day for everyone else behind him by having to do all the leading and then hand-holding everyone else up. Â I feel your pain there, Foraker, but I think the selfish yob and his newbie friends probably have as much a right to be there as you do and if you are a regular climber, that experience may in fact be a lot more significant for those newbies than it would be for you. I bet lots of us wish somebody would have taken us up a classic like that when we were newbies. Â If you don't want to wait for other parties, I'd suggest you stay away from climbs like Nutcracker. Don't even think about dlimbing Outer Space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Intentionally launched myself off a climb at Vantage about 15 years ago when the column I was climbing peeled off the wall and started to take me for a death-crooz. Executed a beautiful 30-foot swan dive toward the talus, only to be "safely" jerked up just short of impact by the rope, absorbing much of my kinetic energy. A mere nanosecond or so later, the rope got chopped about 2 or 3 feet from my harness by the VW-sized column remnants that were now chasing me down the scree slope. Route no longer exists, but I still do, much to some people's dismay. I don't have much use for Vantage anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 the column I was climbing peeled off the wall and started to take me for a death-crooz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Intentionally launched myself off a climb at Vantage about 15 years ago when the column I was climbing peeled off the wall and started to take me for a death-crooz. Executed a beautiful 30-foot swan dive toward the talus, only to be "safely" jerked up just short of impact by the rope, absorbing much of my kinetic energy. A mere nanosecond or so later, the rope got chopped about 2 or 3 feet from my harness by the VW-sized column remnants that were now chasing me down the scree slope. Route no longer exists, but I still do, much to some people's dismay. I don't have much use for Vantage anymore. Â Â Holy Shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 The Mountaineers take more newbies up Yellow Jacket Tower than you can shake a stick at. It's one of the worst climbs I can think of. I mean the actual climbing is good, all fifty feet of of it... but the whole way up you're dodging rockfall and eroding the hillside. An hour and a half later you get to climb all of twenty minutes. I nominate Yallow Jacket Tower for the Worst Newbie Climb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Tricky Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Any climb with a lot of traversing/pendulum potential. I've (unitentionally) taken a few beginners on climbs where although the climbing was well within thier ability, once they realized they were actually going to fall if they fell, their blissful fearlessness about being on top rope evaporated rather quickly. Much hysteria ensued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyperu Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 this reminds me of my second multi-pitch trad route, that mr natural took me on...outer space, i didn't own rock shoes at the time but natty had all the other requisit equip so hed take me out and i'd try and rally with cross-trainers. Â careno crag worked out good so he set our sights a little higher, and we headed up to sno crick wall... on the second pitch somewhere not far from the belay, there was a traverse heading left... not too bad but there was a move where i had to slap my nikes out to a slopy bump and rock over to a hold... natty thought this part was cake and cruzied right thru, placing gear after the traverse... with a little hesitation, and concern at the big loop of rope in front of me, i stepped out, and extended for the hold, the nike blew, i tried to fall into the hold, i hit it sideways but couldn't stick, so off i went in a big arching cartwheel across the face, nearly slamming my head, and ending up on some heinous licheny face more or less directly below natty... we went on to finish the climb, and the cross trainers smelled real good when feet finally escaped their hellish fire swamp, and emerged in the pristine environ of mr.nats car... he gagged, almost puked, then nearly left me in the icicle...paybacks a bitch thanx doug for those fun times back in the day, lets get out soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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