Greg_W Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I agree w/Scott_Harpell. Pro is for falling on. You'll never climb hard unless you fall on your gear....of course unless the fall would hurt or kill you. Then your cams or pro won't do shit anyways which emphasises the point that gear is for falling on. If the gear won't take the fall then there was no reason to place it in the first place. True, but all falls are not alike. I've placed shitty, desperation gear at the verge of falling and then taken short falls on them when I slipped or tired out. That's different than being above a tipped out #2 30' into some rotten funk. On alpine climbs, any gear is good gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 no it's not. bad gear is worthless. I do agree w/your not all falls are alike scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 (edited) I think you guys are all lazy sloppey climbers. I can frechfree a .10 no problem, I do that when I am planning on falling. on working on a project. a climb is not climbed unless it has been lead clean. that is climbing with style. there is a diffrence between working on a project and climbing. so you see the piece is fine if you are climbing with in you comfort zone.. if not you might want to think about it a little more. if you think you may take a big fall or you are on something not in you comfortlevel you might want to take a diffrent peice. Edited February 19, 2004 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 (edited) Somtimes it's worth the rope drag to set a crappy piece that'll probably hold a very short fall. Y'know, like those situations when you've got one chossy move to make it to easier ground and/or better pro. Usually those pieces don't even give you too much ropedrag either since they eventually self-clean. But I certainly wouldn't carry around a fragile cam that could only be used in such a situation. Edited February 19, 2004 by chucK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 no it's not. bad gear is worthless. I do agree w/your not all falls are alike scenario What I was alluding to is, I would take a marginal pro placement on a not-so-difficult alpine climb where I would pass up the same placement on a harder crag route. My reasoning for this is that on most alpine routes I've done there is always a bit of choss or looseness; this increases the probability of a slip on easier ground. Sometimes it's just a mental thing to have one in, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 there is a diffrence between working on a project and climbing. You're right, one is a form of masturbation and one is actual climbing. We're not talking about hangdogging up some climb, we're talking about whipping on gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 I think you guys are all lazy sloppey climbers. I can frechfree a .10 no problem, I do that when I am planning on falling. on working on a project. a climb is not climbed unless it has been lead clean. that is climbing with style. there is a diffrence between working on a project and climbing. so you see the piece is fine if you are climbing with in you comfort zone.. if not you might want to think about it a little more. if you think you may take a big fall or you are on something not in you comfortlevel you might want to take a diffrent peice. Are we discussing the same subject Muffy? That didn't make a drop of sense. -on the alpine thing...I see. yeah gotta get something in to keep you on the mtn if a hold breaks. My point was that if the piece wasn't good (i.e. it would rip) then it won't do you any good if you fall on it. I don't think many of us put in totally shitty pieces on an alpine route w/so many cracks and shit to sling around so it's a moot point i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 there is a diffrence between working on a project and climbing. You're right, one is a form of masturbation and one is actual climbing. We're not talking about hangdogging up some climb, we're talking about whipping on gear. yep me too. we all know where our ability level is... you get better by pushing past that. you know when you are going to fall/learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I think you guys are all lazy sloppey climbers. I can frechfree a .10 no problem, I do that when I am planning on falling. on working on a project. a climb is not climbed unless it has been lead clean. that is climbing with style. there is a diffrence between working on a project and climbing. so you see the piece is fine if you are climbing with in you comfort zone.. if not you might want to think about it a little more. if you think you may take a big fall or you are on something not in you comfortlevel you might want to take a diffrent peice. Are we discussing the same subject Muffy? That didn't make a drop of sense. -on the alpine thing...I see. yeah gotta get something in to keep you on the mtn if a hold breaks. My point was that if the piece wasn't good (i.e. it would rip) then it won't do you any good if you fall on it. I don't think many of us put in totally shitty pieces on an alpine route w/so many cracks and shit to sling around so it's a moot point i guess. Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertWest Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Mike: I'd put the black tape on the cam and put it on the aid rack. The energy required to mushroom a cam lobe is sufficient to create micro-cracks as well, which could lead to future "catostrophic" lobe failure (the lobe would break under a load) Gear is to fall on, but you'll want it to actually function as intended. Not worth the risk, IMHO ($49.95 vs. two broken feet or life in a wheel chair or making you friends go to your funeral) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I think you guys are all lazy sloppey climbers. I can frechfree a .10 no problem, I do that when I am planning on falling. on working on a project. a climb is not climbed unless it has been lead clean. that is climbing with style. there is a diffrence between working on a project and climbing. so you see the piece is fine if you are climbing with in you comfort zone.. if not you might want to think about it a little more. if you think you may take a big fall or you are on something not in you comfortlevel you might want to take a diffrent peice. Are we discussing the same subject Muffy? That didn't make a drop of sense. -on the alpine thing...I see. yeah gotta get something in to keep you on the mtn if a hold breaks. My point was that if the piece wasn't good (i.e. it would rip) then it won't do you any good if you fall on it. I don't think many of us put in totally shitty pieces on an alpine route w/so many cracks and shit to sling around so it's a moot point i guess. perhaps not.. I do not climb alpine.. so maybe I should shut up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote you know when you are going to fall/learn Actually, the two big whippers I have taken were total surprises to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Mike: I'd put the black tape on the cam and put it on the aid rack. The energy required to mushroom a cam lobe is sufficient to create micro-cracks as well, which could lead to future "catostrophic" lobe failure (the lobe would break under a load) Gear is to fall on, but you'll want it to actually function as intended. Not worth the risk, IMHO ($49.95 vs. two broken feet or life in a wheel chair or making you friends go to your funeral) HERBERT I THINK I LOVE YOU ya what he said, except I would take it on easy climbing trips too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 i feel like i'm piling on right now... muffy, i totally disagree with this. you can fall anytime even on stuff you can solo. i want my gear to hold even on the easy stuff. not so long ago i was leading a 5.7 that i've climbed several times. i had one good nut in and was moving past it. i was being pretty casual b/c i have climbed that pitch before. i was placing the second piece and i was a little sloppy and had to untangle a sling. my foot slipped fromt he stance i was in and i fell on that first nut. i was really glad it held b/c i would've decked if it hadn't. i almost didn't put that first piece b/c i knew that pitch and had climbed it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote you know when you are going to fall/learn Actually, the two big whippers I have taken were total surprises to me. that is because you are a cocky SOB and underestimated the area (for the one I know about) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 i feel like i'm piling on right now... muffy, i totally disagree with this. you can fall anytime even on stuff you can solo. i want my gear to hold even on the easy stuff. not so long ago i was leading a 5.7 that i've climbed several times. i had one good nut in and was moving past it. i was being pretty casual b/c i have climbed that pitch before. i was placing the second piece and i was a little sloppy and had to untangle a sling. my foot slipped fromt he stance i was in and i fell on that first nut. i was really glad it held b/c i would've decked if it hadn't. i almost didn't put that first piece b/c i knew that pitch and had climbed it before. you are right minx... you can fall and die on a 5.6 as easily as you can a 5.15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote you know when you are going to fall/learn Actually, the two big whippers I have taken were total surprises to me. that is because you are a cocky SOB and underestimated the area (for the one I know about) And I was out of shape...don't forget that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote you know when you are going to fall/learn Actually, the two big whippers I have taken were total surprises to me. that is because you are a cocky SOB and underestimated the area (for the one I know about) And I was out of shape...don't forget that. well and it was tricky.. first trip of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 It's off the rack until further testing. Anywhere I can send it to be c heck out, or would that cost more than acutally replacing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 smash it into more small pieces. make small pieces into keychains. sell keychains for $5 each. buy new cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I have heard that BD reslings their cams (usually for free) Wouldn't it be a good joke to send them a whole rack of mangled and worn out cams and ask them to resling them. I wonder what they would say to that. You might even get some new gear out of the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 smash it into more small pieces. make small pieces into keychains. sell keychains for $5 each. buy new cam. or. . . Melt down the "aircraft grade aluminum" and make some part for an expensive aircraft. Then get yourself a nice little contract with the dept of defense and sell the little babys for 500 dollars a pop (that 1000000000 in canadian dru) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Climbing is about calculated risk. With so much that can possibly go wrong, much of it beyond your control, why would you want to stack the deck against yourself? I would rather expect my gear to do its job than expect it to fail. That said, it is a personal decision based upon your own tolerance for risk. I don't care if you people sling weeds with rubberbands for pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 BD generally will not sling cams that are of questionnable condition. I know of at least two people who received their cams back with a note telling them they should be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fejas Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Climbing is about calculated risk. With so much that can possibly go wrong, much of it beyond your control, why would you want to stack the deck against yourself? I would rather expect my gear to do its job than expect it to fail. That said, it is a personal decision based upon your own tolerance for risk. I don't care if you people sling weeds with rubberbands for pro. what are you saying? I sling weeds with rubberbands... Seriously though, I agree with marking it and using it for other functions. Like an uppward placement at the bottom of a route, if you're conserned about the uppward pull of the rope caused by a fall will pull the first peice, second peice in a domino afect... I donno go with your first intuition, what you feel comfortable with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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