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David_Parker

Alpenthal on Friday

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Skiers can sideslip

I spend my saturdays sideslipping. It's a whole buttload more work on skis than a board.

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On skis, you get in over your head, you sideslip a couple of turns. It's a pain in the ass, you feel stupid, and you get in there and just make the turns. Then you (I) feel better about the whole experience.

 

It's got to be a whole lot easier to sideslip all the way down on a board, because I see guys doing it top to bottom. It's like they think what they are doing is "snowboarding." Any boarders want to speak up for the punks and say if this is true? Do they need to go see a movie where the boarders put the small end down the hill or what?

 

Toast, you have my blessings to do what you will to Iceberg. That run has been a sheet of blue since they put in the winch cat pole and started grooming it. FYI they are now using the winch cat pole they put in last summer for the very first drop-in for Snroting Elk, and you have my blessings for that too. You just stay away from the rest of the bowl 'til you know how to carve and there won't have to be any boxing_smiley.gif action.

 

Oh and the Right Angle Face....WTF n00b snowboarders %$@!!! madgo_ron.gif

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this is why the alpental backcountry is pretty cool...it's just enough of a pain in the ass to get back there (that long, slightly uphilll traverse) that it often discourages boarders. I can generally skate+pole up the little bit that requires it and get across pretty quick.

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When my son was first learning to snowboard he side slid everything steep. He and his adolescent friends thought it was cool to "board the steep stuff" even if they side slide to whole thing. I used to give him a little crap about it but I am sure that has nothing to do with why he changed. He finally got better and actually carves now. So it is the newbies who are sideslipping which is easier to do on a board than on skiis which is why we are having this discussion. My pet peeve with boarders is that they keep hitting my 5-6 yearold and we are on intermediate slopes cutting downhill lines. If they are so out of control, why don't they ever hit me? I am always right with her. It's because they are wimps. They chose to hit the smaller obstacle. From now on, I am confiscating boards, I shit you not. It will be all I can do to keep from taking a head with it. Oh yeah. My other daughter has been hit twice and my wife has been hit once. None of us has EVER been hit by a skier. FUCK snowboarders and their unsafe attitudes. Good snowboarders should give bad snowboarders a hard time. It would promote the sport.

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Boarders sideslipping on the steeps or worse yet, sitting down just below the lip, make excellent "gates." A close turn at speed does more to exncourage them to board elsewhere than any invective, which they ignore, anyway. Leaves them shocked.gif

 

What I want to know is why when in 100 feet of a lift they feel they MUST board over all nearby skis.

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Now that we have drifted into bashing now, I'll join in. My son overheard me use the world "groveling" while riding the chair at Crystal and asked me what it means. I said wait a minute and I'll show you. Soon enough there were a couple of boarders trying to get up a slight incline on a traverse. They were squirming around on the ground on their knees in some sort of conveluted circus show. I pointed to them and said..."that's groveling!"

 

Ok, now for the big one. I actually wish I knew how to snowboard. If I could just click my fingers and be an expert, I would buy one. It looks really cool to be able to rip a big wide bowl in high speed long radius arcs. But I'm not going to waste time learning because I just don't have that many days to get out to justify spending them learning something new again. But I do have a question for boarders who also know how to ski to compare the following. When confronting a steep, narrow chute is it just harder to commit to making a turn on a board? We skiiers can often do jump turns, but doing one properly has a lot to do with the fact we have ski poles. In a jump turn we maintain control in super steep terrain by going slow and keeping our skis more perpendicular than parallel with the fall line. But we ARE making turns and not pushing or scraping the snow down in front of us. Is the only way to go slow to maintain control on a board to sideslip? Are jump turns out of the question? Since I don't do your sport, I am trying to understand it. wave.gif

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My boarder buddies seem to be able to do something similar to side slip. They ride terrain ever bit as steep as I ski on and they manage to get down it (very impressively) without taking the entire run of snow with them.

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I ski with two boarders and they feel the same way about the side slip fantasy. Save the powder for those that know how to do it. One of the boarders is a young girl that has two years of experience and she can flat ass fly down the slopes. Great to watch her. Her boy friend has been on skis and since he was two and then switched to the Dark Side when he was a punk teen. He went fat and never came back.

We were at Baker this weekend and had a ball. Most boarders there have a clue of the rules of the road. Those that don't get shit from the other boarders. At least that is what I am told by the people I know.

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Bug said:

From now on, I am confiscating boards, I shit you not. ....FUCK snowboarders and their unsafe attitudes.

ahhh, do you what ya gotta do there Bug.

 

Rick Shapless wrote:

Boarders sideslipping on the steeps or worse yet, sitting down just below the lip, make excellent "gates." A close turn at speed does more to exncourage them to board elsewhere than any invective, which they ignore, anyway. Leaves them

seems pretty fair to me, just don't get pissed when they follow you down to the chair lift and jib your skis when you stop to wait for your buddies.

 

David Parker:

It looks really cool to be able to rip a big wide bowl in high speed long radius arcs.

have you ever had the feeling while doing something that it was just the way it was meant to be done? High speed powder turns do that to me.

 

and more David Parker:

But I do have a question for boarders who also know how to ski to compare the following. When confronting a steep, narrow chute is it just harder to commit to making a turn on a board? We skiiers can often do jump turns, but doing one properly has a lot to do with the fact we have ski poles. In a jump turn we maintain control in super steep terrain by going slow and keeping our skis more perpendicular than parallel with the fall line. But we ARE making turns and not pushing or scraping the snow down in front of us. Is the only way to go slow to maintain control on a board to sideslip? Are jump turns out of the question? Since I don't do your sport, I am trying to understand it.

I always thought skiers making jump turns in tight situations were doing that cause it was the safest way down for them. Picturing myself on skis (this is an extremely difficult thing to do) and facing a tight chute I can only think the last thing I'd want to have happen is to catch an edge on snow, tree, snag, what have you and tumble backwards downslope. Envisioning that happening I can only think that a skier making many, many, many "hop" turns as they've been referred to as the safest way down. Snowboarders on the other hand normally have the advantage of a shorter board and as well as being able to face the chute and any terrain features that may be problematic. So yes, it is generally "easier" for a snowboarder to sideslip a chute where a skier would be forced to make "hop" turns. Oh yeah, and remember skiers have two edges to work with. Whether that is an advantage I have no idea probably depends on the conditions. In a perfect world every chute would be straightlined by skiers and boarders alike.

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Blah blah blah. Come on can't we all just get along. Seriously, there are good riders and there sucky riders, there are good skiers and there are sucky skiers. I have seen just as many skiers destroy a beautiful powder line by side slipping and doing hockey stop jump turns.

 

David to answer question, yeah boarders can do jump turns, but in my opinion skiers and boarders doing jump turns and going perpendicular to the slope do just as much damage to a powder line as side slipping. And jump turns as you described is not really linking turns and you're not really skiing when you are doing that. I look at skiing and boarding happens when you are sliding on you base. As far as the commitment part in making turns in tight chutes, I think it is harder on a board. I feel like accelleration much faster on a board, which makes it scarier, thats my opinion.

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There are right ways and wrong ways to make jump turns. You can simply jump from horizontal to horizontal, but you can also use partial jump turns to keep a rythym and link turns on steep terrain. Often a jump turn can be used to orient you the right way to then make several "normal" turns.

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I have seen just as many skiers destroy a beautiful powder line by side slipping and doing hockey stop jump turns.

 

David to answer question, yeah boarders can do jump turns, but in my opinion skiers and boarders doing jump turns and going perpendicular to the slope do just as much damage to a powder line as side slipping. And jump turns as you described is not really linking turns and you're not really skiing when you are doing that. I look at skiing and boarding happens when you are sliding on you base. As far as the commitment part in making turns in tight chutes, I think it is harder on a board. I feel like accelleration much faster on a board, which makes it scarier, thats my opinion.

 

I see what you are getting at, but I disagree. Ist, I don't see skiers sideslipping powder. It's practically impossible as our skis don't ride on top. Second, jump turns are "linking turns" and "are skiing" albeit only usually done as a last resort and due to conditions. Heavy wet snow, crust and narrow steep chutes are some. Lets talk steep chutes. In those conditions I don't think damage is done to the detriment of the next skiier or boarder by making jump turns. The snow between the tracks remains intact unless it is so steep and dry it sloughs off. Well in that case it is truely first guy gets the goods. But there are plenty of times where two or more skiers can ski a steep chute in a figure eight fashion and each gets the goods. A boarder sidesliping to get through ruins it for the next guy. Well at least a skier. Another boarder sideslipping as well, well whatever!

 

It takes a very high level of confidence, ability and commitment to ski a steep narrow chute. It seems, I guess, that boarders don't need that as much to get through by sideslipping and that is why they do it...because they CAN! I suppose they aren't to blame if there is something tastey they are trying to get to, it's just the nature of the beast. I don't have to like it though.

 

The times I get envious of boarders (yes I do!) is really heavy crud. It looks much easier to rip over it than doing my energy sapping "gorrilla" turns!

 

On a powder day, shots like Upper International (Alpenthal), Powder Bowl (Crystal), Great Scott (Snowbird), Spanky's Ladder (Blackcomb), Anything off the Peak (Whistler) are getting trashed a lot quicker because of boarders sideslipping. We skiiers need something to bitch about I guess. It's fuels the fire and keeps us boxing_smiley.gifboxing_smiley.gifboxing_smiley.gif!

 

JUMP TURN: The snow was pretty heavy!

159jump_turn-med.jpg

Edited by David_Parker

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I know I am splitting hairs here, but. ....Jump turns like the way Josh describes, you are linking turns and using the fall line to move. If your skis are perpendicular to the fall line you should take your ass to some easier terrain. It does piss me off though when I see snowboarders side slipping, one, it ruins the terrain and two, it give skiers something to bitch about and end up lumping all snowboarders in that group. As for skiers not being able to side slip that's bull, I see them out there, granted not as smooth and paved as a snowboarder, but IMO makes the slope worse (beginning stages of crud) than a snowboarder, unless the boarder scrapes off all the snow and leaves ice, which eventually happen to some tracks.

 

As for being envious on crud days, crud is still hard on a snowboard. The day you should be envious are those powder days where you can surf the slope, or spring carving day where it is fast and only turning where there are turns in the trail, or a good bump day, or you know what I guess all the time. Snowboarding rocks, speaking from of the experience of an ex-alpine skier, ex-pinhead, and ex-XC skier, it's the bomb.

 

I agree with your last statement skiers need something to bitch about I guess, probably because skiing just isn't good enough. boxing_smiley.gifboxing_smiley.gifboxing_smiley.gif

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I know I am splitting hairs here, but. ....Jump turns like the way Josh describes, you are linking turns and using the fall line to move. If your skis are perpendicular to the fall line you should take your ass to some easier terrain.

 

This comment is so broad that it's wrong. On really steep terrain (pick what that means to you), having your skis perpendicular for part of the turn is an excellent way to check your speed. Not talking side-slipping, but an energetic, check to control the speed before making the next turn....

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ken, I thought snowboards were not fun on bumps? All my boarder friends seem to think that bumps are the absolute worst with a snowboard. Someday I want to pick up boarding, my problem is I am almost exclusively in the BC now, where, no matter what, skis rule. They are just easier for travel.

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Someday I want to pick up boarding, my problem is I am almost exclusively in the BC now, where, no matter what, skis rule. They are just easier for travel.

 

I ski and snowboard, usually switch between the two depending on conditions...snowboards really shine on the steep and deep b.c. lines...you float better...and you never have a yard sale on a snowboard tongue.gif You can't skin up a slope with a snowboard though (unless u have a split board $$),so skis excel there, as well as on icy hard stuff and long approaches, etc. It's cool to have as many weapons in the arsonal as possible.

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I'm guilty of taking some boarders down some lines they shouldn't be on.. aka a little too much snow plowing.. but then again I remember thats because I couldn't find a skiier with enuf balls to hit it. I'm a huge skiier as well.. and I don't usually have the balls to hit some of the lines I do on a board.. Not saying you dudes aren't out there that can.. BUT obviously you are a minority, so quit bitching about stuff the MAJORITY likes to do.

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I'm guilty of taking some boarders down some lines they shouldn't be on.. aka a little too much snow plowing.. but then again I remember thats because I couldn't find a skiier with enuf balls to hit it. I'm a huge skiier as well.. and I don't usually have the balls to hit some of the lines I do on a board.. Not saying you dudes aren't out there that can.. BUT obviously you are a minority, so quit bitching about stuff the MAJORITY likes to do.

Spraying about how much harder core boarders are is so 1999 rolleyes.gif

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