Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
chelle

I guess I was wrong...

Recommended Posts

religions are society's coping mechanisms for the harsh reality that sometimes life sucks. They provide half-baked stories that are supposed to comfort you when life kicks you in the pants for no apparent reason.

 

If this is how you see it then how about,

 

Evolution is society's coping mechanism for the harsh reality that they're going to hell. They provide a half-baked hypothesis that is supposed to comfort them so they can feel guilt free while sinning.

Huh? How so? Christianity says that if you're good then you'll go to Heaven when you die, and you'll keep living up there. Thus it's comforting when your son dies, because you know he'll keep living in heaven and you'll see him there. Also, when life sucks, you can console yourself that you'll go to heaven soon and life is perfect here. That's how it's comforting.

 

But how does the theory of evolution comfort us and keep us from feeling guilty? confused.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If this is how you see it then how about,

 

Evolution is society's coping mechanism for the harsh reality that they're going to hell. They provide a half-baked hypothesis that is supposed to comfort them so they can feel guilt free while sinning.

As far as I can tell, being religious has no bearing on how much you sin, or whether you feel guilty about it or not. I don't see the relationship between evolution and the concept of heaven/hell. One is an explanation for the diversity in species on the planet. The other is a kind of world view... confused.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to pig feces...

 

I got my pig facts from a show on the latest advances in medicine...

 

As for the arguments, who brought in creation? Wasn't the original post just about leaving Evolution out of the ciriculum. No-one said anything about bringing in Creation.

 

The truth is Evolution still hasn't proven that creation didn't happen. It only states that we went from a simple life form to a complex one. Well where the heck did the simple life form come from???? The answer it was always there, doesn't work!!!!!!!!!! The very science that Evolution is based upon states that you can't produce something from nothing. Well in the beginning there was nothing, now where'd we come from.

 

And about transforming from apes... the fossils that were in our textbooks proving the transformation have been riddled with lies and deciebt. Confessions of the discovers on their death beds admitting to creating a fossil from two different digs. Simply attatching an ape skull to a human jaw bone. Also several fossils only accounted for 25% of the total reconstructed artifact. They filled the rest in with plaster to produce the proper bone structure to the best of their knowledge. In other words, creating the missing link out of plaster.

 

Don't you find it peculiar that only one skull of each transformation was discovered. Wouldn't you think that there would be several discoveries of the lastest transition to man before they discovered the earliest? I mean if you started digging for skulls, you'd find millions of present day man before you'd find one of man a 1/2 million years ago. So you should find thousands of man 1/2 million years ago before you find one of man 1 million years ago.

 

Too many holes to be taught as a proper theory now adays.

 

And if we developed from apes, why are there still apes around now adays? How come apes didn't develop? How come none of the other current spiecies didn't evolve from another current spieces. How come there aren't groundhogs that evolved from groundhogs to become some intelligent being that can kill the farmers that constantly kill them?

 

Doesn't this seem a little bit disturbing to anyone?

 

Still waiting for some comments from the the_finger.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
religions are society's coping mechanisms for the harsh reality that sometimes life sucks. They provide half-baked stories that are supposed to comfort you when life kicks you in the pants for no apparent reason.

Scott, since you don't seem to get it I'll explain what Iain said. Life sucks. But Jesus says that we should embrace suffering. Since Jesus tells us to embrace[life], we feel less like victims, and more as noble stoics. As such, religion makes you feel better when life sucks. Complicated, no?

 

YOU are you getting it Paul. Religion is not supposed to make you feel better. That is my point.

Logic is lost on you Scott. Reread my post a few hundred times until you understand Iain's point. Thanks! wave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott, I'm obviously having a problem understanding your reasoning today. In an effort not to offend your delicate nature today on an obviously emotionally charged topic for you, I'll put the blame on myself. However, I thought I should at least explain myself and ask a few clarifying questions.

 

Your post:

Scotty said: I see. So am I to assume that the only way you will talk with another person of different faith than you is make fun of them... Or just Christians? That is cool. Just wanted to make it clear. If you all believe what you say, that "people can believe whatever they want," then mabe you should calm down and be a bit more respectful. I know this is the part where you say "I dont have to if you keep forcing your judeo-christian morals on me," but really, have I ever done that? Have a nice night! and no Thinker, the air is fine... wave.gif

 

was in reply to a post by me. I don't REALLY think you're implying that I've shown any disrespect to any religion on this thread....

 

And this posting of yours:

 

Scotty said: I was just wondering if you could mabe have some respect for other cultures. Would that be possible? Just a thought. You left-of-centerds are all concerned about other minority cultures. Why are you not concerned about this one? It is clearly a minority, so how about some respect? Thanks!

 

was in response to Cracked:

Cracked said: People spontaneously combust. How can you prove it ISN'T true?

UFOs land in the Nevada desert to kidnap people. Prove it ISN'T true, and I'll believe you.

 

I still have to say I'm not tracking with you. What minority in Cracked's posting are you referring to? Were you REALLY implying I was disrespecting someone's religion.

 

And on a further note, sure, I think people should be free to believe what they want to. But I also think they should be willing to discuss it and back it up with solid reasoning for WHY they believe what they do, unless of course they are not secure enough in their beliefs to have such a discussion. I've encountered young people, people very new to their faiths, and insecure people, and I typically recognize that it wouldn't be kind to question their belief system as it's forming. But when someone has been steeped in the dogma for years I love to pick their brains and find out how they rationalize any obvious contradictions.

 

edit: maybe the 'circus' comment could be construed as disrespectful, but I claim it's still within the bounds of fair play for this thread.

 

I was not blaming you solely. I just think that we should try and tolerate everyone else's opinion, no? I DO think you (and others) have disrespected a religion in this thread. Do you know what those letter mean (the ones geting mounted by the fish)? I dont care if a minority of the posts are disrespectful; There are still some that are disrespectful. I think that: 1) we should not disrespect other's beliefs and if we must, 2) We must fully understand the position before doing so. That is all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
religions are society's coping mechanisms for the harsh reality that sometimes life sucks. They provide half-baked stories that are supposed to comfort you when life kicks you in the pants for no apparent reason.

 

If this is how you see it then how about,

 

Evolution is society's coping mechanism for the harsh reality that they're going to hell. They provide a half-baked hypothesis that is supposed to comfort them so they can feel guilt free while sinning.

Huh? How so? Christianity says that if you're good then you'll go to Heaven when you die, and you'll keep living up there. Thus it's comforting when your son dies, because you know he'll keep living in heaven and you'll see him there. Also, when life sucks, you can console yourself that you'll go to heaven soon and life is perfect here. That's how it's comforting.

 

But how does the theory of evolution comfort us and keep us from feeling guilty? confused.gif

 

You are wrong about salvation Paul. That is not the way to Heaven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to pig feces...

 

I got my pig facts from a show on the latest advances in medicine...

 

As for the arguments, who brought in creation? Wasn't the original post just about leaving Evolution out of the ciriculum. No-one said anything about bringing in Creation.

 

The truth is Evolution still hasn't proven that creation didn't happen. It only states that we went from a simple life form to a complex one. Well where the heck did the simple life form come from???? The answer it was always there, doesn't work!!!!!!!!!! The very science that Evolution is based upon states that you can't produce something from nothing. Well in the beginning there was nothing, now where'd we come from.

 

And about transforming from apes... the fossils that were in our textbooks proving the transformation have been riddled with lies and deciebt. Confessions of the discovers on their death beds admitting to creating a fossil from two different digs. Simply attatching an ape skull to a human jaw bone. Also several fossils only accounted for 25% of the total reconstructed artifact. They filled the rest in with plaster to produce the proper bone structure to the best of their knowledge. In other words, creating the missing link out of plaster.

 

Don't you find it peculiar that only one skull of each transformation was discovered. Wouldn't you think that there would be several discoveries of the lastest transition to man before they discovered the earliest? I mean if you started digging for skulls, you'd find millions of present day man before you'd find one of man a 1/2 million years ago. So you should find thousands of man 1/2 million years ago before you find one of man 1 million years ago.

 

Too many holes to be taught as a proper theory now adays.

 

And if we developed from apes, why are there still apes around now adays? How come apes didn't develop? How come none of the other current spiecies didn't evolve from another current spieces. How come there aren't groundhogs that evolved from groundhogs to become some intelligent being that can kill the farmers that constantly kill them?

 

Doesn't this seem a little bit disturbing to anyone?

 

Still waiting for some comments from the the_finger.gif

 

The pig is an unclean animal [sOURCE: Pulpfiction] therefore since humans have learned to be clean we cannot come from pigs!!! Besides which we like to eat Bacon and Cannibalism is bad!!!

 

HOWEVER we also cannot come from Monkeys. Monkeys throw shit at each other so are therfore unclean animals!!!

 

BUT maybe pigs, monkeys and us ALL EVOLVED from some common ancestor...it would be small like a monkey, unclean like a pig and smart like a human... it must be the ALIEN.

 

Aliens crash landed or a colony failed on Earth. Some of the aliens went to live in the trees and became hairier for protection and learned to say Ook and fling shit at each other. These are the Apes.

 

Some of the aliens were hungry and ate garbage. Over time as they ate more garbage they got fatter and pinker and became PIGS!!!! OK? so far?

 

WE are the aliens that tried to keep our own technology. This explains CHARIOTS OF FIRE and the Nazca Lines.

 

Any questions cantfocus.gifcantfocus.gifconfused.gifsmileysex5.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cracked asked: But how does the theory of evolution comfort us and keep us from feeling guilty?

 

A very interesting question. The associated question: Why does religion try to make us feel guilty? is even more interesting.

 

IMHO, the severe feelings of guilt that Christianity has instilled in millions of people is counterproductive to living a joyous life (fyi, joy is one of the fruitages of the spirit...that's somewhere in the New Testament). When one steps out from under the oppressive bonds of "Christian" guilt, life takes on a whole new meaning....I've seen it happen many times.

 

That begs the question, is 'Christianity' in it's modern form anything like Christianity was in the first century?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott. What do you believe about salvation? Do you believe in predestination, grace, or what? If religion makes you miserable, why do you partake in it?

 

I gotta write an essay for history now. Sorry. cry.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cracked asked: But how does the theory of evolution comfort us and keep us from feeling guilty?

 

A very interesting question. The associated question: Why does religion try to make us feel guilty? is even more interesting.

 

IMHO, the severe feelings of guilt that Christianity has instilled in millions of people is counterproductive to living a joyous life (fyi, joy is one of the fruitages of the spirit...that's somewhere in the New Testament). When one steps out from under the oppressive bonds of "Christian" guilt, life takes on a whole new meaning....I've seen it happen many times.

 

That begs the question, is 'Christianity' in it's modern form anything like Christianity was in the first century?

 

Thank you! I agree. Modern Christianity is nothing like it was in the first century. I try to subscribe to the 1st century ethic, but admittedly, it is tough. Look at who Christ was. He was oppsed to big churches and prefered small philosophical chats by the fire. He abhored money and was enraged by the desecration of the temple by the money changers. The list of differences goes on, but I assure you that there are Christians who know this and are trying to fix this problem. Likely this problem originated in the creeds of Calcedon etc. where the first kinds of orthodoxy were created. Thanks for the question. thumbs_up.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott:

 

I don't have the time or focus to argue this evening, but I would like to point out that you are in Spray, so you can't really complain about disrespect. You can assert that you are offended and your feelings are hurt, but people routinely make fun of what each other believe around here, whether it's bolts, politics, gun rights, or religion. To have devout respectful exchanges about the finer points of various christian sects requires an entirely different message board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scotty said: blah, blah, blah.....Have a nice night! and no Thinker, the air is fine...

 

Scotty, I thought you said you were going to bed almost an hour ago. You're mom is going to be real mad if she finds out you're still online.

 

I, on the other hand, must sign off now and go to my Salsa lesson. Later suckas' grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

 

edit: I'll get to your other comments about first vs 20th century philosophies tomorrow if it's still relevant. But in the mean time, what church do you belong to if you feel so strongly about pursuing the pure doctrine?

Edited by Thinker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott. What do you believe about salvation? Do you believe in predestination, grace, or what? If religion makes you miserable, why do you partake in it?

 

I gotta write an essay for history now. Sorry. cry.gif

 

Well Paul, in scripture, Christ says, "I am the way, the Truth and the Light; No-one can go to the father except through me"... The mere belief in Christ as one's savior is all that is required to salvation. Christ associated with the prostitutes and tax men, to show that all can be saved and our eternal destination is not determined by a life of good works. I am not really aware of any verses that conclusively say that there is a tangible hell or that someone will go there if they do not believe... for what it is worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott:

 

I don't have the time or focus to argue this evening, but I would like to point out that you are in Spray, so you can't really complain about disrespect. You can assert that you are offended and your feelings are hurt, but people routinely make fun of what each other believe around here, whether it's bolts, politics, gun rights, or religion. To have devout respectful exchanges about the finer points of various christian sects requires an entirely different message board.

 

That's fine OW. I was just asking out of courtesy. I know that people get mad over Feng Shuey being ostracized and thought mabe i would point out that a fairly important symbol in the Christian faith is being mounted by a fish. I just wanted to show the difference in attitudes about two different religions. ave a nice night. wave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to pig feces...

 

I got my pig facts from a show on the latest advances in medicine...

 

As for the arguments, who brought in creation? Wasn't the original post just about leaving Evolution out of the ciriculum. No-one said anything about bringing in Creation.

 

The truth is Evolution still hasn't proven that creation didn't happen. It only states that we went from a simple life form to a complex one. Well where the heck did the simple life form come from???? The answer it was always there, doesn't work!!!!!!!!!! The very science that Evolution is based upon states that you can't produce something from nothing. Well in the beginning there was nothing, now where'd we come from.

 

And about transforming from apes... the fossils that were in our textbooks proving the transformation have been riddled with lies and deciebt. Confessions of the discovers on their death beds admitting to creating a fossil from two different digs. Simply attatching an ape skull to a human jaw bone. Also several fossils only accounted for 25% of the total reconstructed artifact. They filled the rest in with plaster to produce the proper bone structure to the best of their knowledge. In other words, creating the missing link out of plaster.

 

Don't you find it peculiar that only one skull of each transformation was discovered. Wouldn't you think that there would be several discoveries of the lastest transition to man before they discovered the earliest? I mean if you started digging for skulls, you'd find millions of present day man before you'd find one of man a 1/2 million years ago. So you should find thousands of man 1/2 million years ago before you find one of man 1 million years ago.

 

Too many holes to be taught as a proper theory now adays.

 

And if we developed from apes, why are there still apes around now adays? How come apes didn't develop? How come none of the other current spiecies didn't evolve from another current spieces. How come there aren't groundhogs that evolved from groundhogs to become some intelligent being that can kill the farmers that constantly kill them?

 

Doesn't this seem a little bit disturbing to anyone?

 

Still waiting for some comments from the the_finger.gif

 

The pig is an unclean animal [sOURCE: Pulpfiction] therefore since humans have learned to be clean we cannot come from pigs!!! Besides which we like to eat Bacon and Cannibalism is bad!!!

 

HOWEVER we also cannot come from Monkeys. Monkeys throw shit at each other so are therfore unclean animals!!!

 

BUT maybe pigs, monkeys and us ALL EVOLVED from some common ancestor...it would be small like a monkey, unclean like a pig and smart like a human... it must be the ALIEN.

 

Aliens crash landed or a colony failed on Earth. Some of the aliens went to live in the trees and became hairier for protection and learned to say Ook and fling shit at each other. These are the Apes.

 

Some of the aliens were hungry and ate garbage. Over time as they ate more garbage they got fatter and pinker and became PIGS!!!! OK? so far?

 

WE are the aliens that tried to keep our own technology. This explains CHARIOTS OF FIRE and the Nazca Lines.

 

Any questions cantfocus.gifcantfocus.gifconfused.gifsmileysex5.gif

 

Can I quote you for my Psychology Analysis paper??? Actually I think we are simply proving the one known scientific fact with this post... climbers are Mad!!! There are no signs of inteligent life in them hills. Isn't it great to be able to go to a place where we all fit in!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scotty said: blah, blah, blah.....Have a nice night! and no Thinker, the air is fine...

 

Scotty, I thought you said you were going to bed almost an hour ago. You're mom is going to be real mad if she finds out you're still online.

 

I, on the other hand, must sign off now and go to my Salsa lesson. Later suckas' grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

 

edit: I'll get to your other comments about first vs 20th century philosophies tomorrow if it's still relevant. But in the mean time, what church do you belong to if you feel so strongly about pursuing the pure doctrine?

 

I really do not affiliate myself with a denomination. I dont think that Christ would have either. So there you have it. Have fun at Salsa! wave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder if Jeebus nailed as many babes as Joseph Smith! That guy was a machine!

 

Probably not. As a devout Jew, I would assume that he remained chaste till death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to pig feces...

 

I got my pig facts from a show on the latest advances in medicine...

 

As for the arguments, who brought in creation? Wasn't the original post just about leaving Evolution out of the ciriculum. No-one said anything about bringing in Creation.

 

The truth is Evolution still hasn't proven that creation didn't happen. It only states that we went from a simple life form to a complex one. Well where the heck did the simple life form come from???? The answer it was always there, doesn't work!!!!!!!!!! The very science that Evolution is based upon states that you can't produce something from nothing. Well in the beginning there was nothing, now where'd we come from.

 

And about transforming from apes... the fossils that were in our textbooks proving the transformation have been riddled with lies and deciebt. Confessions of the discovers on their death beds admitting to creating a fossil from two different digs. Simply attatching an ape skull to a human jaw bone. Also several fossils only accounted for 25% of the total reconstructed artifact. They filled the rest in with plaster to produce the proper bone structure to the best of their knowledge. In other words, creating the missing link out of plaster.

 

Don't you find it peculiar that only one skull of each transformation was discovered. Wouldn't you think that there would be several discoveries of the lastest transition to man before they discovered the earliest? I mean if you started digging for skulls, you'd find millions of present day man before you'd find one of man a 1/2 million years ago. So you should find thousands of man 1/2 million years ago before you find one of man 1 million years ago.

 

Too many holes to be taught as a proper theory now adays.

 

And if we developed from apes, why are there still apes around now adays? How come apes didn't develop? How come none of the other current spiecies didn't evolve from another current spieces. How come there aren't groundhogs that evolved from groundhogs to become some intelligent being that can kill the farmers that constantly kill them?

 

Doesn't this seem a little bit disturbing to anyone?

 

Your basis for criticizing evolution as a discipline clearly shows your ignorance. This is what happens when a complex aggregate of ideas is condensed for popular consumption. Actually the ideas underlying evolution are not very difficult but the ideas become corrupted through simplification. The idea of man evolving from apes, for instance. Nowhere does evolution postulate this. Humans and apes have a common ancestor. This is not the same as humans evolving from apes.

 

There appears to be times when species are more 'plastic', meaning capable of change followed by long periods of stasis and usually ending in extinction as depicted in evolutionary diagrams showing long branches or lineages branching off of a common trunk (ancestor). The process of speciation is not constantly occurring. There are speciation events that occur, again followed by periods of stasis or no change.

 

How do you explain homologous structures in life? Some invertebrates show well developed nervous systems with resultant intelligence, social structure, and complex behaviorial strategies. Invertebrates such as the octopus and squid have a well developed eye that differs from the vertebrate eye. How do you explain the multiple origins of flight in different groups of animals such as the extinct dinosaurs/reptilian ancestors, mammals, and birds? The same goes for the swimming features such as fins in fish and the fin-like appendages on sea mammals. How do you explain the existence of vestigal structures in the body? Why would god create the appendix if it served no current purpose? Look at the development of the ear from the jaw bones or the development of the brain in humans (brain stem is autonomous nervous system, commonly called 'reptilian' brain; the neocortex is the most recent brain structure.).

 

The evidence to support the discipline of evolutionary biology does not come from just the fossil record. There is evidence from genetics, observations of the developmental changes through life (ontogeny), breeding or artificial selection, etc. The evidence is so overwhelming that one would have to be a modern day Luddite with respect to intellectual ideas or a throwback to not see the cultural relevance of evolution to our modern day view of the world. In the absence of a better explanatory model, then evolution as an unified theory and as a discipline remains.

 

The only thing disturbing is that ignorance is still widespread today in this country. It's as if these same people don't realize what causes babies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hope you believe in Evolution cause you're going to Hell!

What's evolution got to do with Hell?

 

BTW, I'll see you there, if it exists. bigdrink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I once read that would take at least seven years of physics to understand the theory of relativity. But folks hear expressions like "Natural Selection" and "Survival of the Fittest" and suddenly think they've got a PhD in biology.

 

I got about halfway thru the Bible, but only about 200 pages into Darwin's Dangerous Idea.

 

It's all Feng Shoey to me. cantfocus.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×