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pope

Restoration

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If you spend time bitching about bolts on this site, you only manage to piss people off (as I have learned). I think it's time for a more constructive approach. Jon and Tim, we need a special column dedicated to route resoration. In this forum, we could discuss how to best remove bolts without damaging the rock, what to look for in a good crow bar, how to remove really stubborn half-inch bolts (I assume they're stubborn, but I don't have much experience), which routes need to be erased, how to make a good patch, etc. Climbers could meet other climbers eager to reverse the disgusting trends of the last decade.

 

The beauty of this is that all of the bitching would then be done by the bolt slingers. What do you say?

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Can't you Mitch and Bill Robbins just exchange phone #'s and leave the rest of the climbing community out of your annoying diatribe? [Roll Eyes]

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whatever slappy...i'm with ya pope...it certainly is a key topic as those errant bolts were put there by climbers and it is up to the community to reduce the amount of "unnecessary" bolts.... right on....

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You could have 2 forums, 1 "unsafe loose runout horrors to bolt" and the other "sissified routes needing to be restored to their bold original state" and let routes bounce back and forth between the 2 forums. [big Grin]

 

Maybe there should be a forum on good spots for trolling too?

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quote:

Originally posted by slaphappy:

Can't you Mitch and Bill Robbins just exchange phone #'s and leave the rest of the climbing community out of your annoying diatribe?
[Roll Eyes]

You'd be surpised how many cc.commies own a crowbar. I just purchased a 36" Gorilla bar and I love the feel of that thing in my hands. I sit in my bedroom and play with it (the same way I'll bet some of you played with your first SLCD)! I calculated that you can apply over 10,000 lbs of force with it if you play with the fulcrum point.

 

I've got Mitch's phone number, BTW. He's got a "restoration tool" I'll bet you couldn't even lift, sport boy. )I've got a tool I'll bet you'd like to lift.)

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quote:

Originally posted by pope:

how to remove really stubborn half-inch bolts (I assume they're stubborn, but I don't have much experience), What do you say?

Goddamn right they're stubborn Pope...Also, you might want to upgrade from the 3-footer. While they work reasonably well with 3/8" (even then the proper tap-while-prying cycling technique is needed), you'll sometimes find yourself hanging from the end of the bar just bouncing, or bracing a foot ABOVE the bolt and one below and yarding for all you've got. Gives you a decent workout though...

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Maybe if I bolt Icicle Road at -5.15 Retro & Pope could get their love bars out and have at it.

 

Bolt the Planet!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I've in and out of town travelling for a while and haven't had the opportunity to check on this site as much as I did latley. Good to see that that His Holiness can still troll with the best of them.

 

Seriously - if all this is about is removing bolts on lines that take natural pro or those that have been established at toprope problems I doubt that anyone will be too upset about that. Sounds like you guys have the expertise and the tools to do the job without damaging the rock any further. Good luck.

 

Hopefully you'l be just as active in your efforts to preserve the land around the crags as well when someone organizes an effort along those lines.

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quote:

Originally posted by TimL:

Great another topic on bolting. Thanks for adding fuel to the fire Pope.

 

Pope and Mitch - you guys suck. Maybe Retro, Pope and Bill Robbins can get together and have a crow bar 3 way.
[Moon]

Make that a 5-way. You and Slap can trade off as pivot man.

 

quote:

Retro - Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've sunk several bolts into Leavenworth rock. JY crag ring a bell?

The route is called New Frustrations, 1991 with John Eminger, owner operator of 49 Degrees North (not Jim Erninger, as it says in the guide book). A compelling natural line right up the center of the crag. If you can suggest another way to protect the initial slab, I would like to know about it. I thought that one of the two "bolts" was a pin. But I'm probably wrong; guidebooks are always right. Don't let your rope follow into the crack after you pull over the roof. You may become frustrated or desperate. Have you done the route, or are you just full of shit.

 

quote:

Retro - Who the fuck made YOU the moral conscience of Leavenworth climbing? From your spray, its seems like you've done more to take away from Leavenworth climbing then top add to it. I see nothing positive about your statements.

Right now, Leavenworth climbing has no moral conscience. I am suggesting that one be developed. From your comments I can only conclude that your reasoning only goes as far as " more bolts are better" or "it is ok for anyone do drill anywhere". You are welcome to add your opinions toward the development of a "conscience", especially if it goes further than "you suck".

 

quote:

I've never been an advocate of bolting natural lines. With all this talk of "restoration" I see a witch hunt attitude being taken that can only be a hindrance.

So, what do you suggest be done about bolting of natural lines, nothing? Speak up, You're probably not as ignorant as you sound.

[Moon][laf]

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Hee hee I am going to drill this weekend. BRRM BRRM BRRM!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by HeadSpace:

hey, buy my drill and get in on the action! Bolt The Planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your drill could be useful. There are plenty of retro-jobs where old quarter-inch bolts have not just been upgraded, but the protection completely rearranged.

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in all seriousness, could someone explain to me what the hell is going on? people seem pretty pissed about bolts. its been a few years - what areas, other than vantage, are so blatantly over-bolted?

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Im gonna borrow a HILTI TE-10 and go to town! Bzzp bzzp chukka-chukka-chukka - bRRRRRRRRRPPPP!

 

Looks like the pro on this 25 meter route will be 3-4 bolts and 1 cam placement (to keep sport climbers off it). Having the first pro require gear is even better than putting the first bolt high to keep unwanted crowds away.

 

"Waah my cheater stick wont reach the bolt waah!" [big Grin]

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head space-

just because you are so pussy you have to clip bolts all day, you dont have to get all jealous. i dont mind the odd sport route here or there...but there is no erason to just bolt up every difficult to protect crack or make a bolt ladder on really easy slab.... no hard feelins man.... [Moon]

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quote:

Originally posted by Dru:

Im gonna borrow a HILTI TE-10 and go to town! Bzzp bzzp chukka-chukka-chukka - bRRRRRRRRRPPPP!

 

Looks like the pro on this 25 meter route will be 3-4 bolts and 1 cam placement (to keep sport climbers off it). Having the first pro require gear is even better than putting the first bolt high to keep unwanted crowds away.

 


In my experience, if further on the route there's a need for placing pro, someone will get suckered into climbing up with only quickdraws. Subsequent bitching and moaning will create a reputation that will keep other sport-only climbers away. Probably even raise their ire. Or, runouts work similarly.

BTW, crowbars aren't the best way to pull bolts. Using wedges like lost arrows with a notch cut out of the tip for the bolt to fit within generates much more force. A 3/8" wedge type bolt (a 5-piece can just be unscrewed and the components within the hole fished out with a coat hanger wire) has a pull-out strength of over 6,000lbs. I've straightened a 3' crowbar trying to remove a 3/8" Rawl Drive abortion that I placed. Worse case scenario, use a small metal drill bit to drill out the bolt.

Be aware, though. Placing and removing bolts damages rock. No one wins a bolt war.

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"Right now, Leavenworth climbing has no moral conscience. I am suggesting that one be developed. From your comments I can only conclude that your reasoning only goes as far as " more bolts are better" or "it is ok for anyone do drill anywhere". You are welcome to add your opinions toward the development of a "conscience", especially if it goes further than "you suck"."

 

I will keep an eye out for you on lead turtling up a 5.5 trad route and then my partner will simulclimb past you clipping your gear as we go and then when we get to the top we will be sure to knock a couple of baseball sized trundlers while peeing down that 5.5 you so aestheticially shall ascend. Did I mention after you go home there will be nice rap anchors every 20 feet so I don't have to carry so much rope?

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The face route to the right of the Dogleg is a very good, non-trivial 10a and a good lead climb. It’s been there for two years. Removing it is completely unreasonable! As would be any L-worth bolted slab route!!!

 

Last year I asked to list all the bolted cracks and got a measly 15 routes, 90 percent are in Vantage. And “poop” didn’t even respond. Is he just looking for confrontation?

 

Radical anti-bolt actions will not help the problem of (more and more commonplace) overbolting. Rather the problem is (and will be) dismissed along with annoying, and incapable, Poup and Co. A consensus needs to be built, not confrontation.

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