Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Whaddaya think of this? It's a question and response from R&I's interview with some Austrian hardman/dark horse named Michael Mayr who has, in the past 4 years, repeated El Nino (.13c), Freerider (.12d), and Golden Gate (.13b) which are all free routes on El Cap, for those not in the know. He's also done some sicky things in Europe, including an onsight solo of the Cassin-Ratti Route (.11d and known for loose rock), and bagging the 2nd ascend of a .13c/d horror show put up by Bubu Bole in '01. Anyway, here: R&I: Conventional wisdom says you need years of traditional-climbing experience to free-climb a big wall. Is having trad experience overrated? Mayr: I think so. A person who has never climbed trad but has climbed 5.14 is much more likely to free-climb a 5.13 route on El Cap than someone who has climbed trad all his life but never climbed hard. Just figured this might rub someone the wrong way, or spark one of those rad sport vs. trad debates that we all love so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Dr_Flash_Amazing said: Just figured this might rub someone the wrong way, ... blah-blah, blah-blah You're such a dick I think a 5.13 route up El Cap sorta transcends the normal sprot vs tard distinktions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I'll take the bait. The BS with his comment is that he's comparing two different things, trad experience and ability to climb hard. If a person has the ability to climb at 5.13, then they only need to learn how to place gear, etc., which can be learned much faster than someone trying to progress from 5.9 leader to 5.13 leader regardless if it's trad or sport. Plus all you're doing on those el-cap free routes is clippin' fixed gear and pitons anway, so what's it matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Sport will get you strong faster than trad. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Here's a tidbit for ya: Flagstaff, Arizona based (formerly Boone, NC based) climber Matt Childers has also done Golden Gate, FreeRider, and some .13R trad pitches in the Sedona area. He's also done 5.hard FAs in the Vampire spires, the NC mountains, and other places. Matt's background? A NRG trad climber, Boone boulderer, and Yosemite lodge employee/trad climber during the summers while in college. It's apples and oranges. It's easy to get strong clippin' because you can get in way over your head and get spanked with no consequences in order to get stronger. That's not always a good idea on trad routes. You could make the argument that a 100' indoor gym would be superior to sport climbing because you can totally control the workout and optimize your strength training. After all, look at that Nels Roaassen pig farmer kid from Canyukada....I think he'd only climbed outside a few times and was sending extra hard the few times he got on real rock because he was so strong from pulling plastic. This is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Aren't those El Cap free routes general done by first rapping down and pre-placing the gear & rehearsing the moves? Kinda sounds more like sport climbing than ground up, figure it out as you go trad climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Only a trad climber can go out into the mountains, find a new line up an alpine wall, and climb it in the same day. That is why I like it. Maybe I am not as strong as sport climbers but I enjoy the scenery and solitude more than the scene. That is the difference between trad and sport for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Bug said: Only a trad climber can go out into the mountains, find a new line up an alpine wall, and climb it in the same day. That is why I like it. Maybe I am not as strong as sport climbers but I enjoy the scenery and solitude more than the scene. That is the difference between trad and sport for me. you still don't get it, don't you. it means, that if you have guns you can get up on anything in style. and that's why you need power to burn. and maybe that's why huber did a couple of the routes in the mountains like Shievling or orge, routes you will never have a chance to get on as you lack the discipline and power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Hey Bob, the Ogre is your agenda.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 it wasn't the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 glassgowkiss said: you still don't get it, don't you. it means, that if you have guns you can get up on anything in style. and that's why you need power to burn. and maybe that's why huber did a couple of the routes in the mountains like Shievling or orge, routes you will never have a chance to get on as you lack the discipline and power. Sounds like someone's been missing the weekly visit to the back alley proctologist! Power != Style. Never has, never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 (edited) cj001f said: glassgowkiss said: you still don't get it, don't you. it means, that if you have guns you can get up on anything in style. and that's why you need power to burn. and maybe that's why huber did a couple of the routes in the mountains like Shievling or orge, routes you will never have a chance to get on as you lack the discipline and power. Sounds like someone's been missing the weekly visit to the back alley proctologist! Power != Style. Never has, never will. fuck off, what is your hardest rp? 10a ? show me best climbers lacking power? your statement just shows how lame the climbing secene is in wa state (or wherever the fuck you are sizzlechest). newsflash-80's are over, stop smoking dope and start training Edited December 6, 2003 by glassgowkiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 glassgowkiss said:fuck off, what is your hardest rp? 10a ? show me best climbers lacking power? your statement just shows how lame the climbing secene is in wa state (or wherever the fuck you are sizzlechest). newsflash-80's are over, stop smoking dope and start training Please tell me what yours is! Pretty please! I really give a shit. There's more to progress than a harder grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I think in this case it comes down to a question of talent more than anything else. The ability to climb 14's is, to a large extent, something one is either born with the potential to do or not. Amongst those that have the natural talent, the good fortune to find the sport, and the drive to hone their gifts to their highest possible level - experience is probably overrated when it comes to crushing hard trad lines. For everyone else, though, it's a different story altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 glassgowkiss said: cj001f said: glassgowkiss said: you still don't get it, don't you. it means, that if you have guns you can get up on anything in style. and that's why you need power to burn. and maybe that's why huber did a couple of the routes in the mountains like Shievling or orge, routes you will never have a chance to get on as you lack the discipline and power. Sounds like someone's been missing the weekly visit to the back alley proctologist! Power != Style. Never has, never will. fuck off, what is your hardest rp? 10a ? show me best climbers lacking power? your statement just shows how lame the climbing secene is in wa state (or wherever the fuck you are sizzlechest). newsflash-80's are over, stop smoking dope and start training power is overrated. look at the 83lb kids cranking 5.13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchandsniff Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 As nobody here is cranking 13's or 14's may I suggest we all just STFU. I'll go first..................................... ..................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 how about you try and climb that hard you pussy. oh and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 scratchandsniff said: As nobody here is cranking 13's or 14's may I suggest we all just STFU. I'll go first..................................... you are wrong idiot!!! there are quite a few people on this site climbing 13's!!!!! you are a dipshit! And I know of one person who is currently working and progressing on a 14! power helps more tha anything else. You can have the experience and head, but if you can't make the moves than you can't do it! glasgowkiss4lyfe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gender_Bender Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Fuckin a.. power is so important. FOr example do you think that tom cruise could have busted that sick reverse iron cross 1000 feet up without power. DIdnt think so. Saw no technique at all. all power just like my johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Distel32 said: scratchandsniff said: As nobody here is cranking 13's or 14's may I suggest we all just STFU. I'll go first..................................... you are wrong idiot!!! there are quite a few people on this site climbing 13's!!!!! you are a dipshit! And I know of one person who is currently working and progressing on a 14! power helps more tha anything else. You can have the experience and head, but if you can't make the moves than you can't do it! dude. just chill. if i want someone blowin my horn i will call. otherwise keep it all on the lowdown my nizzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 This shit is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyperu Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 just climb for good reasons... like having fun with friends... or train, pull sick shit, let it go to your head, stop having fun and take yourself super seriosly... or better still climb as hard as makes YOU happy, train or not, smoke or not, have power, or have heart... fuckin have both- to each their own have it your way, and why give a fuck about randommclowns around here -bp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 DFA- I'll take the bait. Yes it did rub me wrong. The article said the guy had never placed a cam in his life. Many of these routes that are being free climbed have a lot of in-place gear and draws. For instance when I cleaned my partner's lead of the great roof pitch on the Nose, I noticed that a free climber wouldn't need to place anything- Just like a sport climb. Look at the photo of Yuji in the mag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Gender_Bender said: Fuckin a.. power is so important. FOr example do you think that tom cruise could have busted that sick reverse iron cross 1000 feet up without power. DIdnt think so. Saw no technique at all. all power just like my johnson. Power? Tom is hot and strong... but having Ron Kauk as his climbing mentor/stunt man probably had more to do with that move and there were pretty low consequenses since he had a cable tied to his back the whole time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Jens said: DFA- I'll take the bait. Yes it did rub me wrong. The article said the guy had never placed a cam in his life. Many of these routes that are being free climbed have a lot of in-place gear and draws. For instance when I cleaned my partner's lead of the great roof pitch on the Nose, I noticed that a free climber wouldn't need to place anything- Just like a sport climb. Look at the photo of Yuji in the mag. "His approach is impressively simple: no fixed ropes, no pre-placed gear, and no week-long rehearsals." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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