sobo Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Avy gslater said: I understand, and you're right, but the signal strength readout is updated so slowly that the sweep has to be agonizingly slow to be sure you're heading in the right direction. Kind of frustrating, I'd imagine, when you're in a big hurry to find somebody. With the F1 or M2 (especially the M2 with the LCD display), the faster display update rate allows me to do the side to side sweep much faster, which is ultimately a good thing. Yes, the initial sweep can seem slow. It takes me about 8 to 10 seconds to sweep through the 120 deg arc to locate the signal and get the initial "beep" and lock. As long as I'm moving in the right direction, I don't need to sweep anymore, just follow the flux line to the subject. If I chose the wrong direction (distance readout increases), I just turn around and it locks back on in about 3 seconds or less without having to "sweep" again. Just turn around and hold still for a couple of seconds. I used a lot of beacons (borrowed or rented) before I demo'ed and bought the ARVA, and I never really got to use anything else long enough to really get to know it. With the ARVA being the first beacon I ever owned, I've had a lot of opportunity to practice with it. I guess that could be why I'm comfortable with it and don't find much wrong with it at all. I guess it just comes down to what you get used to using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgersling Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 (edited) I spoke with Marcus Peterson at Ortovox. Some details about those notes on telemarktips are: The man making the recall complaints is a distributor for BCA Trackers. Sounds pretty biased to me. His site is http://www.avalanchetools.com Apparently there have been no complaints about crashing. This years model has a newer microprocessor. If the beacon stalls looking for information. Keep walking so it can pick up new data. Don't stand still as there is nothing to process. He sounded pretty firm and confident that if there was one complaint you could get a different beacon with no questions asked. There have been over 3000 X1's sold in the last year and a half. He has only seen 3 returns. Edited November 19, 2003 by burgersling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gslater Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 burgersling said: I spoke with Marcus Peterson at Ortovox. Some details about those notes on telemarktips are: The man making the recall complaints is a distributor for BCA Trackers. Sounds pretty biased to me. His site is http://www.avalanchetools.com Apparently there have been no complaints about crashing. This years model has a newer microprocessor. If the beacon stalls looking for information. Keep walking so it can pick up new data. Don't stand still as there is nothing to process. He sounded pretty firm and confident that if there was one complaint you could get a different beacon with no questions asked. There have been over 3000 X1's sold in the last year and a half. He has only seen 3 returns. I finally got a chance to play with an X1 the other day. Seemed to work fairly well, but I was indoors where there was a lot of noise, so it wasn't a great test. The only thing that annoyed me about the X1 is that the speaker made this little "tick" sound everytime the "distance" display updated. So if you're using the thing just by audio cues, the subtle ticking sound with each distance update kind of confused things with the real beeping signal. Not a problem once the signal gets louder, but for low volume, initial acquisition kind of stuff, it could be annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgersling Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 I just got the Ortovox X1. I'll be happy to report any shortcomings. The analog range plus the digital switchover at 45 meters seemed like more of a no brainer beacon to me plus excess range available compared to ARVA,BCA tracker, and the barryvox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 OK, I am not trying to bash Ortovox here, but I am sure it is beginning to look that way, even more so by the end of this... burgersling said: I spoke with Marcus Peterson at Ortovox. an unbiased source for sure Some details about those notes on telemarktips are: The man making the recall complaints is a distributor for BCA Trackers. Sounds pretty biased to me. His site is http://www.avalanchetools.com I believe he is actually a retailer, a fact that he been open about, and that he was also planning to be a seller of the X-1, until he tested it out, and found the problems he notes. Apparently there have been no complaints about crashing. Maybe none to Marcus, but this incident I refer to was first hand from someone I trust a lot. This years model has a newer microprocessor. Because last years had no problems? If the beacon stalls looking for information. Keep walking so it can pick up new data. Don't stand still as there is nothing to process. Once you have a signal there is always something to process. I find the processing lag to be a problem with all digital beacons, not just the X-1, something that needs to be gotten used to for those of us who are familiar with the analog system. Some of us are more adaptable than others, and some beacons are quicker than others. He sounded pretty firm and confident that if there was one complaint you could get a different beacon with no questions asked. That is good to know. There have been over 3000 X1's sold in the last year and a half. He has only seen 3 returns. I guess he is not counting the ones that retailers have returned then... So, as I said, I am not trying to bash Ortovox here. I think their F1 is still a standard setting beacon, although the SOS is pretty close, and maybe better in some ways. I still have an F1 in my gear box, and I still use it. I am, however, trying to alert people to other information out there, and let them make up their own minds. I know that from what I have read and heard, I would be hesitant to buy an X-1, and I would not neccesarily feel confident if my partner showed up with one. I would still like to try one out myself though. Any one wanna sponsor me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgersling Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 Obviously he is a biased source but he is able to come clean with a name instead of some internet fabrication. Just because he was planning to sell X1 doesnt mean there are hidden facts behind business deals gone sour either.. Because this one is faster or maybe there was a problem with last years. It's anyone's guess. I tested mine around the corner comparing it to the barryvox. I preferred the X1. Yes there is always something to process if you move. If you stand still there is nothing new. Logic to me. I have seen the arva stall as well.. I really can't stand behind AVMAN there since he is not willing to publicly come out and verify certain facts. I don't have to ski with you and no offense meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 No offense taken, like I said, I am just wanting people to be aware of all the opinions before they make their decisions. Maybe we can ski together sometime, and I can try one of these X-1 thingys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgersling Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 Maybe so you fucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgersling Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 Just by recent skepticism quotes there has been a positive and pro active response I am getting phone calls and email correspondence from Europe regarding the X1. I'm going to test my X1 out again friday or saturday again... After comparing it to the barryvox... It sounds as if someone doesnt like this beacon for whatever reason it's not an issue to get a replacement NO QUESTIONS ASKED-m2 or whatever you want... But the real deal is that Ortovox is still standing behind their product in Europe as well as in the US and are not bonded by boundaries. Hola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncascademtns Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 All in all, if you look at the big picture of transceivers, they're way over priced. You can get most any portable electronic device for under 50 buck now a days, and they do a hell of a lot more than just send out and receive a signal. Maybe it is a liability thing. Just my thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 ncascademtns said: All in all, if you look at the big picture of transceivers, they're way over priced. You can get most any portable electronic device for under 50 buck now a days, and they do a hell of a lot more than just send out and receive a signal. Maybe it is a liability thing. Just my thought. Yes, they are expensive, but I decided that my life is worth 300 bucks. Dunno about yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 ncascademtns said: You can get most any portable electronic device for under 50 buck now a days, and they do a hell of a lot more than just send out and receive a signal. Maybe it is a liability thing. Or maybe your clock radio doesn't have to still reliably work after going thru a huge slide. Or function in wet and cold conditions. Now, arc'teryx bibs, those are overpriced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 BARRYVOX!!! now if i only had some extra money laying around to buy one with ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I have an Arva 9000 and a Tracker. I lend the Tracker to freinds who don't own a beacon so that they will find me fast (the tracker is relatively easy to use, though not foolproof). I have practiced a lot with the Arva and am very fast with it; as fast or faster than any other beacon. The key to speed with any digital beacon is to get to know it well. When you know your beacon well you can quickly get a sense of the orientation, shape, and size of the parabolic curve you are following and you will be able to RUN right down the induction line in seconds; as soon as you know which way the line is bending, and about how far you are from the burial, you will be able to anticipate where the end of the curve is and get right to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 jaee said: ncascademtns said: You can get most any portable electronic device for under 50 buck now a days, and they do a hell of a lot more than just send out and receive a signal. Maybe it is a liability thing. Or maybe your clock radio doesn't have to still reliably work after going thru a huge slide. Or function in wet and cold conditions. How much did you pay for your last cellphone? It functions in all of the above. And it's alot more high tech, alot smaller, and cheaper than a beacon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Nick said: I have an Arva 9000 and a Tracker. I lend the Tracker to freinds who don't own a beacon so that they will find me fast (the tracker is relatively easy to use, though not foolproof). I have practiced a lot with the Arva and am very fast with it; as fast or faster than any other beacon. The key to speed with any digital beacon is to get to know it well. When you know your beacon well you can quickly get a sense of the orientation, shape, and size of the parabolic curve you are following and you will be able to RUN right down the induction line in seconds; as soon as you know which way the line is bending, and about how far you are from the burial, you will be able to anticipate where the end of the curve is and get right to it. EXACTLY! It's what I've been on about all along. I like my ARVA, and I'm fast and good with it. I have practiced with it enough to do just what Nick pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 cj001f said: jaee said: ncascademtns said: You can get most any portable electronic device for under 50 buck now a days, and they do a hell of a lot more than just send out and receive a signal. Maybe it is a liability thing. Or maybe your clock radio doesn't have to still reliably work after going thru a huge slide. Or function in wet and cold conditions. How much did you pay for your last cellphone? It functions in all of the above. And it's alot more high tech, alot smaller, and cheaper than a beacon. I think most cell phone manufacturers will disagree, especially where moisture, shock, and vibration are concerned. Try this test. Put your cell phone in a ziplock w/ a spoonful of water. Now shake it up. Put it in a warm area for a couple of hours, then into the freezer for a couple more. Repeat w/ the tranceiver. Now turn them on. Publish the results. Also, see if your cell phone company will honor the warranty for equipment w/ moisture damage. Also, the cost of a cell phone is buried in the service plans. Try buying a decent new cell phone without signing up for a couple year service plan and see how cheap they really are. I'd also guess that the liability issues on safety equipment like avy beacons are a bit more complex than on a cell phone. This adds costs to the business developing the beacons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 burgersling said: I'm going to test my X1 out again friday or saturday again... After comparing it to the barryvox... they are both nice beacons. my coworker and i played around with both of them in a park one day, and i personally liked the barryvox better. my search times with it were faster, and i found it less confusing to search with. my coworker was less opinionated about the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 jaee said:I think most cell phone manufacturers will disagree, especially where moisture, shock, and vibration are concerned. Try this test. Put your cell phone in a ziplock w/ a spoonful of water. Now shake it up. Put it in a warm area for a couple of hours, then into the freezer for a couple more. Repeat w/ the tranceiver. Now turn them on. Publish the results. Also, see if your cell phone company will honor the warranty for equipment w/ moisture damage. Also, the cost of a cell phone is buried in the service plans. Try buying a decent new cell phone without signing up for a couple year service plan and see how cheap they really are. I'd also guess that the liability issues on safety equipment like avy beacons are a bit more complex than on a cell phone. This adds costs to the business developing the beacons. Dunking your cellphone in a beer at the bar doesn't count? Mine still worked. Beacons don't have any better shockproofing - look at the Jackson Hole Accident last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 cj001f said: ..Dunking your cellphone in a beer at the bar doesn't count? Mine still worked... My son drooled all over my wife's cell phone. It stopped working. Well, maybe not completely. But she couldn't dial anyone with a 5, 7, 9, or * in their number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 sobo said: My son drooled all over my wife's cell phone. It stopped working. Well, maybe not completely. But she couldn't dial anyone with a 5, 7, 9, or * in their number. like father, like son! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgersling Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 The X1 is a fine beacon. I don't have any crashing issues and the features are great. I have not had any complaints and have done 2 search tests already. I have not had the chance to toy with the multiple burial scenario test. Yes the Barryvox is nice but it isnt for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 erik said: sobo said: My son drooled all over my wife's cell phone. It stopped working. Well, maybe not completely. But she couldn't dial anyone with a 5, 7, 9, or * in their number. like father, like son! Well, not exactly... I drool all over my wife. My son... he just drools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncascademtns Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 jaee said: ncascademtns said: You can get most any portable electronic device for under 50 buck now a days, and they do a hell of a lot more than just send out and receive a signal. Maybe it is a liability thing. Or maybe your clock radio doesn't have to still reliably work after going thru a huge slide. Or function in wet and cold conditions. I don't know about that? I've had my clock radio for 10 years and have thrown it up against the wall many a times. It still tells time and it still goes off in the morning. Blasted Thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 snoboy said:I am, however, trying to alert people to other information out there, and let them make up their own minds. I know that from what I have read and heard, I would be hesitant to buy an X-1, and I would not neccesarily feel confident if my partner showed up with one. Here's an interesting counterpoint to the bitching about the X1 http://www.telemarkskier.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000380 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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