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Country_Jake

cams

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I was pondering on the use of cams... I curently use a set of tricams by camp... But they are slow and take time to position correctly as not to slip... but if I where going to puchase a more sofsticated cam, which would be your choice... brands that are better or more friendly to the north, and the best grip for your buck... grin.gif" border="0

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youll probably get a bunch of different responses to this - best thing to do is try to use a bunch of different cams and notice which ones you feel more comfortable running it out on and placing, then buy those. my preferences are: small cams - metolius tcu's and aliens. mid to big cams - black diamond. good luck!

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Do you have an REI near you Jack?

If so, stop by and ask a salesperson there. They are always eager to help and very knowledgable about climbing equipment.

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quote:

Originally posted by chucK:
Do you have an REI near you Jack?

If so, stop by and ask a salesperson there. They are always eager to help and very knowledgable about climbing equipment.

[hell no] Love a good sense of humor! grin.gif" border="0grin.gif" border="0grin.gif" border="0

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I just wanted to know what you guys used and why is all... I like using what I have just though about using something else is all... so I might be a crude ruffneck, when it comes to climbing, that desn't mean I'm some kind of meatwhisle [hell no]

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Jake My thoughts-Surf the gear critic.

Then go out and by some Metolius aliens and or DMM cams. When you get to 3.5 " range go for the Camps soo light soo cheap and soo not used as much...

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i always have liked wild country. i just have a set of tech friends....and i few of the popular sized in the foged friends.....cause they are cheap and durable and light....only ones i haven'tliked were trango's.... my two cents

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BDs are nice, but they are a bit heavy. I have heard it said that the BDs have a greater range and therefore make up for the weight by being able to carry fewer. They have the reputation of being the strongest cam, so strong you can use them in as an active cam or as a passive "nut" type of protection. Don't quote me on this. I have used the BD and think they are an excellent cam.

I have a full set a Trangos and I am happy with them. Why did I buy them? Because they were on sale. But they are fine for the climbing I do.

I have also used the Metolious and think they are a very good cam.

Good luck

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For me your average basic chicken, I think that the “they fit in a wider ranger so the higher weight/unit is offset by the fact that you carry less” argument is somewhat bogus. The number of pieces I want to place on a given pitch is set by the difficulty of the climbing. Only rarely am I unable to get a piece in the general vicinity of my desired location. Thus the size of my rack (most often) doesn’t really decrease when the range of each piece increases. This might change at other areas but for most Washington crags I find it true.

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To an extent its a good argument that even though BD covers a range of sizes you often want multiples so it don't matter that BDs have a good range. That argument makes more sense for cragging but in the mountains you're usually going light and not climbing at your hardest level where you want multiple sizes. That's where BDs range makes the most difference. Also sometimes you just want to strap it on take a skinny rack and go for it. grin.gif" border="0

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i think if the reason you are getting down on BD cams is cause of their weight, then ummmmm i dont know what to tell you.........cuz i have yet come to find a situation to where i think that, "shit man this damn 1" cam wieghs 12g more then a similar peice, i better not bring it....might slow me down too much and i will die in the forcasted storm...."

then if you think that the quality is crappy, then i dont know what to tell you.......granted with time the triggers wires break, but shit dont they all?????

now what i got to say about bd cams, is that of all the pieces ihave used and owned i have never never ever found a cam equal to it.....with trigger action, durability, ease of cleaning and the ability to just go right in coupled with a stem length that is long enough.

most people will never notice the difference in expansion range or weight of the cams, unless they are sitting around trying to find a reason that they think they suck.......and in that case they probably dont spend enough time climbing or taking care of other needs in their life....

i have yet hear an arguement to wear another cam is better, maybe close to as good, but never better......

the only detraction that i could even consider being bad would be the cost, but there are ways to overcome that..................

Black Diamond cams are the BEST!!!!!

plus they are made in america, by americans.....

[ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: erik ]

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Erik, I could not have said it better, I have 2 metolious 2 Friends and 8 camalots, I have had the metolious invert in cracks before, what a bitch to get out, camalots will not do this, and if they do walk back in a crack too far they become passive pro which has been mention. I don't own any smaller than .5 , my friends are smaller than that, so I use nuts. 2 cents worth.

Paul

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I generally carry a double run of cams from as small as they get up to a #3 camalot. I agree that I don't carry less weight overall because of the camalots. (I own the .4 to the #2). I have them in these sizes because:1) they inspire confidence when placed2) thet fit a wide variety of placements, not only in quantitative terms (better-than-average expansion range), but also in an qualitative way; 3) their silky smoothe action;4) they have fantastic stability.Basically, they are a luxury item (if you call perfect placement every time a luxury - I do, interms of the cost of their weight). Of course, their cost also makes them a luxury item.

My ideal rack would be a double run of aliens up to the size of hte .5 camalot and then a single run of camalots to #3 and a run of trangos up in the same sizes (cheap).

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quote:

i have yet hear an arguement to wear another cam is better, maybe close to as good, but never better......

In the small sizes (smaller than the .5 camalot) the aliens are better. Here's why:1) same (or just about same) expansion size - check the numbers there really is no difference 2) flexible stem - camalot stems are to stiff and fat, especially for a pin scar placement, where the stiffer stem can provide unwanted leverage.3) narrower head - same issue - pin scars.4) qualitatively better placements - they just fit better in the thin stuff.

In the big sizes, BD rocks, but are heavy. I can tell the difference when I have a rack full of BD and a rack full of something else.

2 cents.matt

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quote:

Originally posted by Country Jake:
I was pondering on the use of cams... which would be your choice...

Loaded question. If you're rack is doing well with passive pro, and you just want a few supplemental cams, go for BD Camalots since they overlap and cover a broad size range. A tasty selection would be .5, .75, 1, 2, and 3. Add to this a few Metolius TCUs --1, 2 and 3-- and you've got cam sizes from 1/2" to about 4". I like the TCUs over four-cam styles because they don't walk and can fit in shallower cracks. If you're gonna use the rack for aid climbing, the Metolius cams, with their hooped wire design which you can clip your etriers to directly, let you reach a few inches further. If you're just gonna get a couple cams to try, sizes around 1.5 to 3 inches are quit useful, IMO.

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Every cam has its ups and downs. We can argue which is better, and read all of the different reviews. But when it really comes down to it, it is what you feel comfortable with. I suggest finding some friends with different cams, and go climb with them. Play around with the cams in different placements and see what you like best.

One can say most people on this site prefer BD camalots, metolius TCUs and aliens, but aren't they some of the ones that have been around the longest as well. (yes friends have been around longer, but I think they stuck with the rigid friend too long, and lost out on some great opportunity). I know that I have not studied the history and marketplace and all that jazz, but what I see is all of the other companies copying the designs of these three. While the three have continued to improve on the designs, others just follow...

Well back to my point, if I really have one, buy what you are most comfortable placing, and falling on and have fun.

grin.gif" border="0

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matt,

i actally have metoulis and aliens for doubles below .5", cause they do rock!!!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by rr666:
(yes friends [sic] have been around longer, but I think they stuck with the rigid friend too long, and lost out on some great opportunity).

Wild Country introduced Flexible Friends when BD was known as Chouinard Equipment and didn't make camming devices. BD's double axis design was innovative and their cams were --and continue to be-- wrote about glowingly in the mags, and that's why they sell. Magazine reviews have a profound effect on what retail stores stock and what sales they make. Friends continue to be well made as are cams by other manufacturers, but that doesn't mean they'll be at your local outdoor speciality shop offered up as eye-candy, impulse items underneath the glass counter at the cash register. I've never even seen DMM cams at a store, but the workmanship is impeccable, and the US distribution company --Excalibur-- is one of the most honest and generous operations around.

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I think the whole range argument\marketing is funny. It convinces folks well! grin.gif" border="0

I run it out tmore in the mtns.........

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