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lummox

debate fodder: lots of new climbers

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Of course, you are right. My apologies. I think the only thing to be done is to remedy by consumption. bigdrink.gif Let the record state that I agreed with RuMR. That would be a first for this thread.

 

 

RuMR said:

Yo Oly...what's with logic? That left the room about 25 pages ago... fruit.gif

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joe_average said:

I was wondering why this was still in the Climbers' Board. cantfocus.gif

 

Especially since it seems everybody is pretty much in agreement. Mostly.

 

Bolts are bad sometimes, and some people absolutely hate em.

Some folks think bolts are fine.

Poor bolt jobs suck period.

Chipping is unacceptable.

Some people still lump themselves into outdated ( I think) categories of "sport" or "trad" climbers, when in fact it's been my experience that almost everyone I know that climbs likes both, and more.

 

There will perpetually be disagreement on other ethics, such as cleaning, aiding, pin scars, etc. etc...

 

Dialogue is useful until it starts going nowhere. I see valid points from just about everybody. Now let's move this monster to spray and turn it into a thread about Molly Ringwald's career, cuz that's where it seems to be headed anyways. wazzup.gif

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If you really need a spray thread on Molly Ringwald, why don't you start one. It is not as if there isn't room on this board for spray and non-spray threads. Do you spray masters always have to bring your spew to these serious and dignified threads, thereby bringing everyone DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL? Can't we have some adventure here -- take a risk -- state your true position on the subject? Is debating bolt practices a dead art, known only to those great posters of the golden ages of cc.com or can we move the board forward into the NEW GOLDEN AGES? Back in my day, "real" climbers knew how to debate the issues of the day. Good people debate; bad people spray. It takes not talent to spray -- all I gotta do is to jettison all sense of moderation and I could spray with the best of you in no time. If you don't like discussion, don't discuss.

 

 

 

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mattp said:

Do you spray masters always have to bring your spew to these serious and dignified threads, thereby bringing everyone DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL?

Serious? Dignified? yelrotflmao.gif

 

Mmmm Molly molly44.jpg

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olyclimber said:

AlpineK said:

If we were to take the Utilitarian view then bolting rock would be doing the biggest good for the most people.

 

In Soviet Russia, bolting the Peoples rock with the Peoples bolts creates jobs.

 

We must bolt more rock to keep the workers happy!

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AlpineK said:

If we were to take the Utilitarian view then bolting rock would be doing the biggest good for the most people.

 

no... the most climbers.

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RuMR said:

scott_harpell said:

was lovely haveing this chat with you. rumr... lets go climbing when i get back!

 

anytime...just keep your sticky fingers off my gear yellaf.gifyellaf.gifyellaf.gifyellaf.gifyellaf.gif...bolts or cracks????

 

i will break my ethics wink.gif and come clip bolts with you anytime hommes. lemme know thumbs_up.gif

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SUPER COOL...just leave the poptarts at home yellaf.gifyellaf.gifyellaf.gif

 

Seriously, lets hit smiff sometime...you can meet and talk w/ Alan, the father of american sport climbing, and hard hard crack climbing...

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RuMR said:

Lame pope...again you are confusing bolts w/ chipping...

 

Nobody has advocated reducing the physical challenge...you'd probably get your ass kicked by a bunch of sport climbers if you were to chip holds on ToBolt or somewhere else there...

 

if you go bolt classics (like D.D.D.) you are gonna get your ass kicked too... doesn't stop it from being done.

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scott_harpell said:

AlpineK said:

If we were to take the Utilitarian view then bolting rock would be doing the biggest good for the most people.

 

no... the most climbers.

 

I think you're in the minority no matter how you cut it. tongue.gif

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(No spray from me! Well, most of the time.)

 

I don't bolt. And I don't climb bolted climbs.

 

I know climbing is dangerous and I take the risk.

 

I was not designed to touch every piece of rock on this earth. Nor will I try. Knowing my physical limits and the regard to preserving my life makes me a human.

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mattp said:

If you really need a spray thread on Molly Ringwald, why don't you start one. It is not as if there isn't room on this board for spray and non-spray threads. Do you spray masters always have to bring your spew to these serious and dignified threads, thereby bringing everyone DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL? Can't we have some adventure here -- take a risk -- state your true position on the subject? Is debating bolt practices a dead art, known only to those great posters of the golden ages of cc.com or can we move the board forward into the NEW GOLDEN AGES? Back in my day, "real" climbers knew how to debate the issues of the day. Good people debate; bad people spray. It takes not talent to spray -- all I gotta do is to jettison all sense of moderation and I could spray with the best of you in no time. If you don't like discussion, don't discuss.

 

 

 

faqin pricceless matt!

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RuMR said:

SUPER COOL...just leave the poptarts at home yellaf.gifyellaf.gifyellaf.gif

 

Seriously, lets hit smiff sometime...you can meet and talk w/ Alan, the father of american sport climbing, and hard hard crack climbing...

 

yellaf.gifyeah i would be down.

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AlpineK said:

scott_harpell said:

AlpineK said:

If we were to take the Utilitarian view then bolting rock would be doing the biggest good for the most people.

 

no... the most climbers.

 

I think you're in the minority no matter how you cut it. tongue.gif

 

i think you are in the minority... you bolt the rock... you help 2% of the population. you take an ethical minimalist impact stance in your sport and you help 100% of the population

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I know climbing is dangerous and I take the risk.

 

I was not designed to touch every piece of rock on this earth. Nor will I try. Knowing my physical limits and the regard to preserving my life makes me a human.

 

perhaps this is the problem. we as humans cannot accept the fact that we are limited. What have we done to obstacles in the past? Natives? Naughty rivers? why, in this postmodern world should the vertical realm be any different. Conquer at any cost is the one statement that has defined our species and i guess i am naieve to assume that you shit flingers can see your destructive deeply seeded need to conquer anything and everything just because you can. no longer do we do these thigns for money or power, but the need to ocnquer is so permeated in our species that we do it mechanically without any reason. in the in the in the 1800's it was to gain money and power. Now the rational is 'cause its there man.' wazzup.gif

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scott_harpell said:

I know climbing is dangerous and I take the risk.

 

I was not designed to touch every piece of rock on this earth. Nor will I try. Knowing my physical limits and the regard to preserving my life makes me a human.

 

perhaps this is the problem. we as humans cannot accept the fact that we are limited. What have we done to obstacles in the past? Natives? Naughty rivers? why, in this postmodern world should the vertical realm be any different. Conquer at any cost is the one statement that has defined our species and i guess i am naieve to assume that you shit flingers can see your destructive deeply seeded need to conquer anything and everything just because you can. no longer do we do these thigns for money or power, but the need to ocnquer is so permeated in our species that we do it mechanically without any reason. in the in the in the 1800's it was to gain money and power. Now the rational is 'cause its there man.' wazzup.gif

You are full of shit.

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I don't quite understand all of that postmodernism and need to conquer stuff, Scott, but the fact is that climbing is a pretty worthless activity and it is also dangerous. Yes, we are driven -- and we can be pretty self-absorbed about it -- but "a destructive deeply seated need to conquer anything and everything just because [we] can?" You're suffering some serious angst, my man.

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joe_average said:

scott_harpell said:

I know climbing is dangerous and I take the risk.

 

I was not designed to touch every piece of rock on this earth. Nor will I try. Knowing my physical limits and the regard to preserving my life makes me a human.

 

perhaps this is the problem. we as humans cannot accept the fact that we are limited. What have we done to obstacles in the past? Natives? Naughty rivers? why, in this postmodern world should the vertical realm be any different. Conquer at any cost is the one statement that has defined our species and i guess i am naieve to assume that you shit flingers can see your destructive deeply seeded need to conquer anything and everything just because you can. no longer do we do these thigns for money or power, but the need to ocnquer is so permeated in our species that we do it mechanically without any reason. in the in the in the 1800's it was to gain money and power. Now the rational is 'cause its there man.' wazzup.gif

You are full of shit.

 

how eloquently put. twice rolleyes.gif

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mattp said:

I don't quite understand all of that postmodernism and need to conquer stuff, Scott, but the fact is that climbing is a pretty worthless activity and it is also dangerous. Yes, we are driven -- and we can be pretty self-absorbed about it -- but "a destructive deeply seated need to conquer anything and everything just because [we] can?" You're suffering some serious angst, my man.

 

nah man. jsut offering an extension of the "cause its there man" rationale for climbing. nothing more, nothing less.

 

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