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lummox

debate fodder: lots of new climbers

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and yours don't fit the real world...you think they do, but you look like an idiot trying to force them...

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RuMR said:

and yours don't fit the real world...you think they do, but you look like an idiot trying to force them...

 

why not? because i will always seek doing what is right. I try not to do things out of anger. I subscribe to ethics that are cast in stone so that when i am angry or frustrated i do not cast them aside? focing people to subscribe to some way of life is hard i know! where would we be without all those short-cuts that we rationalize everyday. i submit that the world would be a better place indeed if everyone subscribed to some ethics that did not blow abou in the breeze... but what do i know? i am just a kid.

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yerfuckin'nutz...

 

talk to me when you have children about this last issue...

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Is all this shit really worth wasting our time on? This thread has significantly lowered my opinion of Scott, and that's all it achieved. We're not saying anything new and/or relevant anymore. This is getting stupid. yellowsleep.gifyellowsleep.gif

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So Mr. Harpell...

 

Is it REALLY ethical to lift those biners off of backpacks? Really? I'm having a hard time seein' it...but do enlighten me...

 

 

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RuMR said:

yerfuckin'nutz...

 

talk to me when you have children about this last issue...

 

sorry RUMR... vengenance is not right. killing out of anger is not right. it never will be. call me nuts because i have solid ethics? ones that dont change when money is under my nose or my fists are clenched? i would prefer to be that than the contrary. bigdrink.gif

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RuMR said:

So Mr. Harpell...

 

Is it REALLY ethical to lift those biners off of backpacks? Really? I'm having a hard time seein' it...but do enlighten me...

 

 

nope and i shouldnt be doing it.

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OK Scott's got the first definition right when it comes to murder however

 

4. To kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.

 

...Bush and everyone in the military is guilty. The family of the person you shot while trespassing on your property probably thinks you're inhuman.

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Funny thing about that word "always"...huh??

 

Another way of spelling always is HYPOCRITE...

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RuMR said:

now bout those pesky biners, scott...

 

yes i know this is a weakness... and no matter how much i cn try to rationalize it. i did something wrong. at least i am acknowledging that i have transgressed outside my ethics and can now take steps to rectify the situation. but usinig situational ethics, i can rationalize it away saying... them bastards will never use them... i am freeing the 'biners to live the lives they were created to live.... yadda yadda yadda... how this is any different than bolting because it is easier to rationalize, i dont know.

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AlpineK said:

OK Scott's got the first definition right when it comes to murder however

 

4. To kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.

 

...Bush and everyone in the military is guilty. The family of the person you shot while trespassing on your property probably thinks you're inhuman.

 

yep... all wrong... cant make excuses. but precedence doesn't make the action any less wrong now does it?

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whatever...after i recalled your words, i basically threw your holier than thou argument in the trash can...

 

I don't see a problem w/ coexisting sport and trad...they fit fine in my definition of ethics...maybe not yours, but i don't think much of your ethics...

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RuMR said:

Funny thing about that word "always"...huh??

 

Another way of spelling always is HYPOCRITE...

 

i claim no piety sir, but what i do claim is that i can admit when i have transgressed. there is a difference.

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RuMR said:

whatever...after i recalled your words, i basically threw your holier than thou argument in the trash can...

 

I don't see a problem w/ coexisting sport and trad...they fit fine in my definition of ethics...maybe not yours, but i don't think much of your ethics...

 

why not? because they are harder to ignore? harder to rationalize? harder to follow? i make no statements about my piety, but i refuse to pander to ethics that are only applicable when they are not in our way... in short... only applicable when used against someone else.

Edited by scott_harpell

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scott_harpell said:

RuMR said:

whatever...after i recalled your words, i basically threw your holier than thou argument in the trash can...

 

I don't see a problem w/ coexisting sport and trad...they fit fine in my definition of ethics...maybe not yours, but i don't think much of your ethics...

 

why not? because they are harder to ignore? harder to rationalize? harder to follow?

Because your 'ethics' are so incredibly simplistic and senseless that anyone with half a brain doesn't listen to you. Drop the holier than thou bullshit and try to take a look around. If you're so perfect why are you wasting your precious time spraying on this board...go feed some starving kids or AIDS patients, Father Teresa. It's obvious how hypocritical you are, and it's starting to make me sick. thumbs_down.gif

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joe_average said:

scott_harpell said:

RuMR said:

whatever...after i recalled your words, i basically threw your holier than thou argument in the trash can...

 

I don't see a problem w/ coexisting sport and trad...they fit fine in my definition of ethics...maybe not yours, but i don't think much of your ethics...

 

why not? because they are harder to ignore? harder to rationalize? harder to follow?

Because your 'ethics' are so incredibly simplistic and senseless that anyone with half a brain doesn't listen to you. Drop the holier than thou bullshit and try to take a look around. If you're so perfect why are you wasting your precious time spraying on this board...go feed some starving kids or AIDS patients, Father Teresa. It's obvious how hypocritical you are, and it's starting to make me sick. thumbs_down.gif

 

first... i never made a statement of "holier than thou" status... in fact i professed quite the contrary. who are you to say that i have not seen these things cracked? my friend is dying of AIDS as we speak. i lived in Cuba... i have lived all over the world. my ethics are not legit because they are "simplistic" i didn't know beurocratic principles worked with ethics to. i always thought the contrary. rolleyes.gif

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scott_harpell said:

i claim no piety sir, but what i do claim is that i can admit when i have transgressed. there is a difference.

 

You can admit when you've transgressed against your own ethics? How do I know you're not lying? Do you expect to be punished by others when you break a personal commandment? If not, what is the use of your ethics to anyone but yourself?

 

How do I know your ethics don't change? You say they're set in stone, so where are the tablets? Is that the third edition, the large print edition, the translation to Swahili?

 

You are arguing for absolute ethics set in stone. Who set them there? Why are they the right ones? If someone, long ago, decided that this is Right and that is Wrong, how come you can't call their decisions situational ethics? These "books" that you suggest everyone read to bone up on Truth, how come they're better than you and me?

 

You've got a hard row to hoe here, man.

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lummox said:

Distel32 said:

zero_friction_pic_308.jpg

zero_friction_pic_1374.jpg

zero_friction_pic_1558.jpg

zero_friction_pic_2130.jpg

is it possible to boulder with a shirt on?

 

I never take my shirt off to climb, 3 of the 4 problems pictured are pretty hard as well, strong dudes like to climb shirtless

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You can admit when you've transgressed against your own ethics? How do I know you're not lying?

i know for myself... the shame of my transgressions is enough. you are entitled to question if i am lying or not. it is naother penance i pay for my transgressions.

 

Do you expect to be punished by others when you break a personal commandment? If not, what is the use of your ethics to anyone but yourself?

my ethics serve the purpose of living a better life for myself and also for those around me. they serve for self-progression and satisfaction that i am living the best life i can

 

How do I know your ethics don't change? You say they're set in stone, so where are the tablets? Is that the third edition, the large print edition, the translation to Swahili?

the baisic tennants of my ethics will never change: no murder stealing etc... as for the written in stone part, i think moses took care of that for me.

You are arguing for absolute ethics set in stone. Who set them there? Why are they the right ones? If someone, long ago, decided that this is Right and that is Wrong, how come you can't call their decisions situational ethics? These "books" that you suggest everyone read to bone up on Truth, how come they're better than you and me?

my ethics are my ethics because they emphasize minimalizing the negative impact to those around me, a progression of self. they are very utilitarian in nature... ala locke. if we both say we wont kill each other... we wont kill each other...if we both say we will try to be good stewards to teh environment, the environment will not suffer needlessly.

 

 

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Scott-

 

There is nothing "ethical" about trying to impose your ideas of style and aesthetics upon others who are doing nothing to harm you, anybody else, or the environment. You may try to argue that it is harming the environment to put up and utilize that sport crag at exit 38, but nobody else but you and possibly Pope will ever accept that argument.

 

There is nothing about true "situation ethics" that says they only apply when they are not in your way. That is the thing about "ethics" they almost only apply when they ARE in your way --- otherwise we're just talking about rules of convenience. In this sense, I say your blanket "bolted routes are wrong" pseudo-ethic is actually more of a rule of convenience than an ethic - because you have told us you think those bolted routes suck and you don't want to climb them anyway. It is a convenient way for you to put down other climbers, but has nothing to do with ethics.

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if you have quams with my ethics, that is your deal, but my quam with the previous posters is their lack of ethics. to be more precise... it is their lack of concrete ethics. as for books... i dotn knwo what you are refering to... mabe i ws hoping cracked would help out his literacy as he was having dificulties comprehending the definition i posted.

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