scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Bug said: If you chop the bolts on the GNS you will have the WA Historical Society after you. I've been looking at the area where they took most of the blocks and it is starting to look almost stable. I have been thinking about a organized recon/loose rock trundleing party up there. Has anyone brought this up before? i am talking about the chains toward the top... where there are 4 bolts... 3 chains... and about 8 other bolt holes in the rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 lummox said: pope said: The bolt on Secret Dome was initially drilled on lead, but the bit I'd purchased didn't truly match the bolt size I had with me (not my fault). Because it was the only pro for the crux, and since if the bolt failed it would be really terrible, I decided to borrow a power drill and place a 1/2" bolt. avoidin sponsibility. blamin da tools. weak dude. That was an error. The 1/2" bolt was used near Carnival Crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 That anchor on GNS is a mess, sure. There's no reason not to set a gear anchor there or continue up to the tree or to the top of the slab (rope drag notwithstanding). But that anchor is nice for rappelling, and two bolts w/chains are less obtrusive than a nest of webbing around a tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Some routes are a muthaphuckin' pain in the ass to rig a top rope... it better be a good climb then eh? i am too chicken shit to lead even steven. so i decided to TR it (on a few occasions) and it requires a 5.9 vegetation traverse with a purple tcu as pro... but i do it... cause the climb was and is worth it... not every climb has to be climbed... true... mabe if climbs were harder to access and more commiting, people would think first before establishing them and or climbing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 slothrop said: That anchor on GNS is a mess, sure. There's no reason not to set a gear anchor there or continue up to the tree or to the top of the slab (rope drag notwithstanding). But that anchor is nice for rappelling, and two bolts w/chains are less obtrusive than a nest of webbing around a tree. but if you go farther, you can get a direct rappell instead of rapin the tree on the way down from the bolts. regardless... you blamed the crack for the problem when it really is bolts! that are causing the trafic problems on GNS. if people had to create a gear belay there, do you think there would even be 1.3 as many ascents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) Man, i don't get you scott, that thing is waaaaaaaaaay safer than many challenging sport routes, Christ, there's gear available at any given moment on that thing...you could put 50 solid pieces in... Why would you bother w/ the top rope??? Edited November 18, 2003 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RuMR said: Man, i don't get you scott, that thing is waaaaaaaaaay safer than many challenging sport routes, Christ, there's gear available at any given moment on that thing...you could put 50 solid pieces in... Why would you bother w/ the top rope??? mabe because i am a solid 5.10 index climber... and that is solid what? 11c? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Rudy. Have you done the arete? freaking fun... but i couldn't finish it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Yah, but very very very well protected...Thizzis what Peter Puget was saying....that hard cracks are actually less scary than hard sport climbing...shoot, you freak out, slam a piece in and rest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RuMR said: Yah, but very very very well protected...Thizzis what Peter Puget was saying....that hard cracks are actually less scary than hard sport climbing...shoot, you freak out, slam a piece in and rest... but what is the point of resting if you are on lead? might as well TR... plus then you get a sweet layback/hand jammie pitch to warm up fine! i am gonna lead it next dry weekend we have. thanks for callin me out Rudy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I know nobody wants to talk about a solution. It's more fun to talk about the problem...and to pretend like the world's going to suddenly change to support your ideal. Let's face, man has been raping the land some time...bolts are pretty small in the grand scheme (especially the ones that are colored the same as the rocks). Whether you like "sport" climbing or not, the bolts aren't going away. The solution is to get support for officially deginating areas as 'bolt' or 'no bolt'. Who is going to step up and expend the huge amount of energy to get something like this in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 scott_harpell said: but if you go farther, you can get a direct rappell instead of rapin the tree on the way down from the bolts. regardless... you blamed the crack for the problem when it really is bolts! that are causing the trafic problems on GNS. if people had to create a gear belay there, do you think there would even be 1.3 as many ascents? What direct rappel are you referring to? From what anchor? I wasn't blaming the crack for anything. I think GNS is popular for its good climbing, ease of access, sunny location, proximity to Seattle, and moderate grade. That's a pretty good combination. When I first climbed GNS, I was not expecting the mondo bolt anchor atop the twin cracks. The existence of the bolts didn't convince me that the climb was worth doing. It's a well-established crag, so I guess I did expect rap anchors of some kind, but I don't care what kind of anchors they are (bolts, slings, pig head wedged in a crack, etc.) as long as I can rap from them. I think we discussed this in another thread: if you can place gear, you can set a gear belay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Oh ya....and.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 i've never tried it...we went back and did toxic shock and even steven based on Erik's recommendations...there was a substantial queu forming up so we boogied after we were done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 slothrop said: scott_harpell said: but if you go farther, you can get a direct rappell instead of rapin the tree on the way down from the bolts. regardless... you blamed the crack for the problem when it really is bolts! that are causing the trafic problems on GNS. if people had to create a gear belay there, do you think there would even be 1.3 as many ascents? What direct rappel are you referring to? From what anchor? I wasn't blaming the crack for anything. I think GNS is popular for its good climbing, ease of access, sunny location, proximity to Seattle, and moderate grade. That's a pretty good combination. When I first climbed GNS, I was not expecting the mondo bolt anchor atop the twin cracks. The existence of the bolts didn't convince me that the climb was worth doing. It's a well-established crag, so I guess I did expect rap anchors of some kind, but I don't care what kind of anchors they are (bolts, slings, pig head wedged in a crack, etc.) as long as I can rap from them. I think we discussed this in another thread: if you can place gear, you can set a gear belay. we discussed in another that you can't necessarily... see anna's quitting climbing thread for details... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 pope said: mattp said: Yo Pope: wanna take a stab at "the question?" Oh...OK. I have a problem with logging at the base of a cliff. I should have put an equal effort into protesting this commong practice, since we see so much of this. So climbing destroys....what kind of plant life? Lichen? Moss? Do we have any problem getting moss to grow back on an Index climb that hasn't been climbed in a season? My biggest gripe is certainly with bolts. How many times have I said that they don't kill salmon, that my protest is motivated by aesthetic concerns, rather than environmental concerns? Bolts are visual pollution. They look really alien, far more alien than a little rock scar that results from a flake popping off under a climber's foot, and they are quite permanent. Outside of aesthetics, there is the issue of challenge reduction, of the tendency of sport climbers to avoid pioneering thought-provoking, adventurous lines (witness the Exit 38 photos). You put all of this together, you weigh up the pros and cons, you ask whether we could have any fun without bolts, and then you just figure it out: bolts is evil. Let's put the brakes on this runaway train. There you go, Pope. You've answered the question - sort of - but you seem to say that it boils down to aesthetics and style - personal matters the "answer" to which is going to vary from one individual to the next. It is perfectly fine to preach about the excitement of long runouts and the beauty of bolt-free expanses of stone, but instead you are constantly asserting that there is something that makes you "absolutely" or "objectively" right while 90 % of today's climbers are wrong. Worse, you to try to back up your assertions with hyperbole like about hos there are all these climbers hiding in the woods with their power drills, waiting to pounce on Castle Rock the minute you turn your back. Yes, most of us agree that there are some over-bolted crags and climbs out there and yes, I for one have actually gone out and pulled litter bolts out of a crag, but if you want to spread the faith you've gotta start talking at least a little bit of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RuMR said: i've never tried it...we went back and did toxic shock and even steven based on Erik's recommendations...there was a substantial queu forming up so we boogied after we were done... i would say the climbing style is continuous hard (for me) bouldering for 25 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 scott_harpell said: RuMR said: Yah, but very very very well protected...Thizzis what Peter Puget was saying....that hard cracks are actually less scary than hard sport climbing...shoot, you freak out, slam a piece in and rest... but what is the point of resting if you are on lead? might as well TR... plus then you get a sweet layback/hand jammie pitch to warm up fine! i am gonna lead it next dry weekend we have. thanks for callin me out Rudy. I said "rest" not hang!! HAHAHAHAHA... Get your on it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 will do cap'n when are you gonna jump on city park foo? cause we prolly got the same chances of doin each 'proj'.... wait... happy thoughts! happy thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 (edited) i worked that thing a bunch about 7 years ago...its P-A-I-N-F-U-L! Not much fun... had good linkage on a tr, but leading it would be sicko...too hard for me, just too much discomfort... Edited November 18, 2003 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RuMR said: i worked that thing a bunch about 7 years ago...its P-A-I-N-F-U-L! Not much fun... had good linkage on a tr, but leading it would be sicko...too hard for me, just too much discomfort... sweet. that thing calls to me... too bad i am weak sauce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Best description...75 feet of pencil sharpening...stick digits in (ring, pinkie) torque, tug, scream, go home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 olyclimber said: I know nobody wants to talk about a solution. It's more fun to talk about the problem...and to pretend like the world's going to suddenly change to support your ideal. Let's face, man has been raping the land some time...bolts are pretty small in the grand scheme (especially the ones that are colored the same as the rocks). Whether you like "sport" climbing or not, the bolts aren't going away. The solution is to get support for officially deginating areas as 'bolt' or 'no bolt'. Who is going to step up and expend the huge amount of energy to get something like this in place? That would seem like a reasonable possibility, Oly, but the thing is that these guys are aruging that Exit 38 is a tragedy. If they aren't willing to consent to sport climbing there, I don't think there is any place in the State where they'd be willing to agree to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RuMR said: Best description...75 feet of pencil sharpening...stick digits in (ring, pinkie) torque, tug, scream, go home... sounds like fun. kinda like when i did D-H last weekend and only brought the slippers down from canuck-land. motrin pain for sure! but back to the anti-boltic rhetoric!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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