roger_johnson Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I've read many times on CC.com that bivys are someting to be avoided at all costs; that "bivouac is French for mistake" and that to bivy, in some way, implies that you are a gumby... To answer that I quote the great French guide and philospher, Gaston Rebuffat. "The man who climbs only in good weather, starting from huts and never bivouacking, appreciates the splendor of the mountains but not their mystery, the dark if their night, the depth of their sky above...Some mountaineers are proud of having done all of their climbs without a bivouac. How much they have missed! And the same applies to those who enjoy only rock climbing or only the ice climbs, only the ridges or faces. We should refuse none of the 1001 joys the mountains offer us at every turn. We should brush nothing aside, set no restrictions. We should experience hunger and thurst, be able to go fast, but also know how to go slowly and to contemplate. Variety is the spice of life." from Starlight and Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I guess it was a trade off for me. Hump a big pack in, or go light and fast. Now it depends on who I'm going with and I guess I'm open to both styles. They both have their merits, and as I get older, I can appreciate spending more time enjoying the view, especially if it's with my climbing babe. However if I just have weekend to do a long route, I'll get up and down as fast as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 nice quote roger!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I do agree with you. Bivies can be fun and interesting. But I think the point of not using a bivy is to push yourself not to need a bivy. Because a bivy or a high camp in North America is much more likely to be needed, the idea of doing without one is challenging. Europeans (most anyway) have no, or little, appreciation for wilderness because Europe has so little wilderness. The hut system and cable car system removes much of the need for a bivy. In North America many climbs are in areas that are comparativly much more remote than many of the European climbing areas. I think (yes i could be wrong) the quote from Gaston Rebuffat. "The man who climbs only in good weather, starting from huts and never bivouacking" addresses the European situtation much more so than the North American situation. I have been in the huts in South America on a few occaisions and heard the Euros bitch and complain about the lack of services, the dirt, etc. While I thought, "wow this is plush." This was echoed by most every NA climber I ran into in SA. Why? I grew up running around the woods and hills of the Ohio River valley and spent weeks-on-end out under the stars each summer. So did most kids that I knew. And I am sure most posters here did the same or something similar. When I learned to climb it was always put your tent or bivy sack in your pack and go. In Europe very few are raised this way. The focus is GENERALLY on huts. Just an observation and a few thoughts. Anyone else? (I am not saying I am right and the Euros are wrong, just different And I am not saying this is universal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Well said Roger! Being high on a climb and seeing a new day dawn is a great experience. With that said here are a couple of great bivi sites. Note if you use these site you will be awarded with a great time but your climbing prowess will be in question. 1. Ledge at the bottom of the last pitch of Space Shot in Zion. Your friends will wonder about you but in good weather its just like a sleep in the campground. The ground is but minutes away (an easy a1 pitch with trivial free climbing and a few rappels but being its fun as hell. It took alot of persuading to get my partner to agree to this one!) 2. Big Ledge on NE Buttress of Sleese. In early season make snow cones and check out the BIG face. Super cool location. Again your friends will think you wimpy. Ayway I say Bivuoacs Away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Oops! I forgot to mention bivouacs are a cool way to avoid those damn early starts! PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Bivoucs are a good way to lose friends. I sleep lightly and when I wake up I want to smoke. by morning it is all gone. No one wants to bivouac with me anymore. Now I solo but since I do not buy my own stash, I go smokeless. I still enjoy bivouacs but the mystery is gone. Cold, hard rock is what I remember. Am I different too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeshterFeeshter Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I think the Brits call him "Ghastly Rubberfat" Bivvies rule! There are trips where taking the bivvy seriously cuts down on the tent weight and volume and enable one to travel fast and light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Bivys are either intended or unintended depending on whether or not they were intended or unintended. Comprende? [ 03-22-2002: Message edited by: klenke ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 One more thing a route you never want to bivi on:Regular NW face route on Half Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayborbon Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I swear that I thought the MTRS were gonna bivy on Midway once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: "The man who climbs only in good weather, starting from huts and never bivouacking, appreciates the splendor of the mountains but not their mystery, the dark if their night, the depth of their sky above...Some mountaineers are proud of having done all of their climbs without a bivouac. How much they have missed! And the same applies to those who enjoy only rock climbing or only the ice climbs, only the ridges or faces. We should refuse none of the 1001 joys the mountains offer us at every turn. We should brush nothing aside, set no restrictions. We should experience hunger and thurst, be able to go fast, but also know how to go slowly and to contemplate. Variety is the spice of life." Sounds like a lecture to me. I agree camping out is fun, but a lot of hard routes are a lot safer (faster) if you don't bivy. Sometimes success is critical w/ a light pack or lack of camping gear. Just one more thing to go wrong or slow you down before the storm. I have much more fun if my pack isn't heavy. I think that's the worst part about climbing- a heavy pack. BUT, that's not every route! You can get really screwed if your caught out. I don't bivy if I want to try and push myself, or if I've done the route before. If the route is too long for me, or I feel the need to sleep cold and cramped and miserable, I'll bivy. Good or bad, I've had some great memories suffering and shivering. Now, camping below the route after doing the approach is a different story, and I don't think Gaston was talking about this. I think the choice to do that totally depends on how much time you have and how long the approach is, and style points aren't given if you go car to car on a route that you could climb in a day from the base regardless. Bear in mind that Necronomicon is one of my climbing partners and he gets all freaky at night, chanting, "Death by dawn". Would you bivy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: I swear that I thought the MTRS were gonna bivy on Midway once If they do they'll be ok cuz they alway have that ENORMOUS PACK with 79 essentials; condoms and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_detrick Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 If you bivi next to the road it's camping. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 And if you bivi on the road it's stamping. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_johnson Posted March 23, 2002 Author Share Posted March 23, 2002 What is this noise about a heavy pack? We are talking about bivies. No camping, a jacket, hat, food, maybe a bivi sac, mayby a tiny stove and tiny pot(doubles as cup and bowl). That's it. Sit or lay on the gear and rucksac. Go light. Yes it is more that shorts, harness, shoes and a rack and rope but not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Hard to see Rebuffat confused with a lecturer! He was one of the pioneers of big wall climbing in Europe, wrote a book, "Starlight and Storm" about climbing six classic North Face routes, (The Eiger, etc.) He was a lyricist, not a lecturer. Sounds like he enjoyed the bivy for all it's cold dark and damp aspects. [ 03-22-2002: Message edited by: Beck ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 I would like to try a fair weather bivy. My only open bivy was 9 hours of walking in place, on the summit of a peak in the Canadian rockies in late winter after climbing all day. The wind gusted all night and the temp was below 0. Each one of us would fall asleep while walking in place and talking. Stumble and wake to find that the dream you just leap out of was not a warm beach in the tropics with a float plane landing in the cove near by. The day of the dream was replaced by night, the sand was snow and the roar of the plane was actually the wind ripping up the face and over the summit. Ahhhh, nothing like an open bivy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 I've intentially bivied a bunch in below freezing temps, and it doesn't take much to do it comfortably. I put my legs and torso in my pack, lay on the pack's removable pad and the rope, and use a hooded down jacket. With my arms inside the jacket, I pull the sleeves inside out and cross them over my chest and belly to bump up the insulation value. Eating before laying down helps to keep warm too. If you want hot food and drink and wood is around, a small metal cup and a twig fire are enough. I've been experimenting with a homemade alcohol stove that weighs in at 1/4 oz. Two tablespoons of alcohol (I use gas line antifreeze available at auto-parts stores) can bring 2 cups of water to a boil at 7,000' elevation though it doesn't do it as fast as an LP-gas, or white gas stove. It wouldn't be my first choice for melting snow as a water source. I used it during a week-long bike-tour in southern Utah this winter, and it worked great to boil water for drinks and make add-hot-water-only meals. It is delicate, so in my pack the stove, stand and fuel are nested into a small pot and packed carefully. I plan on using it for climbing trips in the Tetons and Winds when liquid water is readily available. Trangia makes a more sturdy commercial model. I am really intrigued by the ultra-light-weight backpacker's poncho/lean-to shelter for use in rainy areas. Here's a set of plans to make one http://royrobinson.homestead.com/PonchoPlans.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_johnson Posted March 23, 2002 Author Share Posted March 23, 2002 I've used an alcohol stove for years. A small brass affair with a tight screw on lid. When full the stove will burn for about a half hour, enough for a week end of warm drinks. When heating water just plop the lid on it to snuff the flames and retain unburned fuel. It is about the size of a small tuna can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted March 24, 2002 Share Posted March 24, 2002 Roger, I love that quote and the book from which it originates. I enjoy the camping experience, but on a technical climb, it's nice to go light. In that case, it's nice to climb fast enough to make it back to camp, where a warm sleeping bag and plenty of grub seem favorable to shivering all night on some damn ledge. My first biv-wack experience was on the Town Crier in March. I wanted to experience a night without a sleeping bag or down coat. I regretted it all night. My next experience out without gear was on Mt. Shuksan in August, climbing with a busty gal and her wolf. We descended the Chimneys and made it back to where we'd left the toothy howler just as darkness set. In balmy temperatures, we experimented with different sleeping arrangements in an attempt to minimize the collective body area exposed to the cold. The next morning we were "rescued" by the Mounties (who wanted to take our pulse and check our ten essentials). These days, I seldom bivouac. It would be selfish of me to spend the night on a mountain when the bitches back at the bar are expecting me to show up and entertain them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 A cute partner makes bivying much nicer. I think we should spend the night here.... are you cold? Should we spoon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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