genepires Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Anybody out there ever use a BD viper? Heard that there may be some flex in the shaft due to the unique shape. Any opinions on this flexing or general comments? thanks gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I have a pair. I replaced my Cobras with them. Â I like them better than the cobras for a few reasons, better grip for my hand, more clearence in the shaft, they are lighter and feel more balanced to me, and the Viper Fang option. Â But there are some disadvantages compared to Carbon Fiber. The Cobras are damp and heavier, so less swings to get good sticks and less vibration. Â I havent noticed any flex in the shaft. But I''m fairly small and lightweight...sort of. A buddy of mine who does some hardcore mixed climbing through horizontal caves and shit said he could feel the shaft flex. But I believe in that scenario you are putting alot more torque on the tool than if climbing a waterfall. Â If you like leashless climbing, but can't afford two sets of tools, I think the Viper is THE tool. Which is why I have them. Â Also, I am a fan of the Android leash. Â It is not for the Alpine... Â Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 is the grip smaller than the cobra grip? BD seems to go large with the grips. (at least their prophets are large) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Viper and Rage have small grips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbb Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 cascadeclimber would probably have more input, but when I've used them (on waterfall) I have felt the shaft flex. I'm guessing this is because of the smooth and large curve of the clearance + the aluminum. It didn't interfere w/ climbing though, and that integrated android is pretty slick (though you can't reach the top of the tool w/ it on). Ditto on the vibration compared to the CF stuff, but hey, what do ya expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 why would you use that BD shit when you could get CHARLET MOSER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 The grip is smaller and tapers. It is skinny at the top and gets slightly larger towards the bottom, you can see it in photos.  Loren thinks there are some design problems, but I disagree. He reviewed them on mtncomunity.org  The Quarks are good, too bad the leashes, hammer, and picks suck ass, otherwise I would have considered them.  The new BD Fusion rocks domes over the Ergo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 boy I got to try out some quarks and they were so solid on overhanging stuff it was almost like cheating. I was very impressed. though I am coming from prophets. anyone know where you can get cf prophets still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 lots of bent shaft CFBP's on ebay  Although I have been looking for a staright shaft CFBP for a while now and it seems they are being horded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 yeah I see a pair for sale on ebay, but they're being sold from jerusalem I always thought those were the perfect ones for the alpine stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I have vipers and have really liked them. I haven't noticed the shaft flexy, but I'm a weak climber so who knows. I find the grips good for smaller hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 iain said: is the grip smaller than the cobra grip? BD seems to go large with the grips. (at least their prophets are large) Â don't know about the viper but i think maybe the large grip was specifically on the prophets. i had some which i hated b/c the grip was too big. i have since inherited some shrikes which feel much better. the grip is definitely smaller. a friend had a similar sentiment about the prophets and now has the vipers and he agrees that it's smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Just to repeat whats been said... The Grip on the Prophets is the same as the Cobras. Â The Rages, Shrieks, and Vipers all have smaller grips. But the Vipers are ergonomically shaped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM3 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Have you ever climbed with the Viper fangs and the android leash on at the same time, for finger protection on bulging ice. Is that cheating? I got the Viper, android and fang setup this season, but I have not used them on ice yet. I have swung Quarks before, are the Vipers similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I didn't have the Fangs on the tools I used last year (loaners from Feathered Friends) But I have them now. Â I plan to just leave the fangs on allways, since they are kind of a pain to take on and off. I'm sure they will be fine, and pinky protection is a plus. We'll see how durable they are... Â One thing I plan to do is zip tie the Android attatchment to the shaft of the tool so that it doesn't flop around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM3 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Yeah I have been doing some shadow swinging in the apartment and the little male attachment has a quiet twak. I can imagine it will be louder actually hitting the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I've just ended up leaving the fangs on. Fuck it if somebody thinks having leashes plus the fangs is cheating...I'd rather not get my pinkies bashed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm tempted to climb with my android leashes tucked into the sleves of my coat, and just pull it out and clip it if shit starts to get wild mid-pitch. Or I realize that I'm a weak wanna-be and chicken out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 (edited) flash thought unrelated (mostly) to this thread! Â i dropped the bottom half of an android leash (from my cobra) in a crevasse over the summer. i figure i have to buy a whole new android now. BUT, can i save money by buying the lower part only since that's all you put on the viper? anybody seen 'em for sale on the web or in seattle? Â edit: nevermind i just answered my own question of BD's site. i save 2 fucking bucks by buying the android viper over the full viper. YOU BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Â Edited November 7, 2003 by lI1|1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 CM3 said: I have swung Quarks before, are the Vipers similar? Â Similar but worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 The Android for the Viper might be a little cheaper. It will work fine with your top half. check www.bdel.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 IMHO (coming from Quasars)  Pros: - Hook well. - Good clearance. - Excellent pick attachment system. - Good pick geometry. - Nice pinky guard, even without the Fang. - Small grip. - Large hole in the head makes it easy to clip them with a biner or to a harness.  Cons: - The damn Android attachment point is too low. I have the leashes shortened all the way and they are still too long. I'm considering adding an extra hole father up the shaft. Also, as DBB mentioned, you can't mantle on the head of the tool- you have to unclip. - The picks are way too soft. They mushroom over on the tip and are overpriced for how long they last. I got two seasons/pick set with Moser tools, and use two pick sets/season with BD gear. - If you don't have the Fangs, Vipers will destroy your gloves. - The shaft does flex a bit. - You have to have a hammer or an adze on each tool: The attachment mechanism is different that Prophets so you can't simply remove the tail-end of the tool and reattach the pick. - They make a funny clinking sound that takes some getting used to (not a big deal). - Not as damp as Prophets. - I'm not fond of the BD adze design. - Could use a touch more head weight.  They're nice, but I'd still be climbing on Quasars if that pick attachment system was so poorly designed.  More conversation here, if you are interested: Viper Discussion on MtnCommunity  -L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 CascadeClimber said: IMHO (coming from Quasars) Â Cons: - The damn Android attachment point is too low. I have the leashes shortened all the way and they are still too long. I'm considering adding an extra hole father up the shaft. Â - You have to have a hammer or an adze on each tool: The attachment mechanism is different that Prophets so you can't simply remove the tail-end of the tool and reattach the pick.-L Â I think the Android attatchment is fine, and I still have about 2 more inches that I could shorten the leash. I don't like to be choked up on a tool, you get a better swing if you hold down low. Just my opinion. Â Also Loren, you can take the hammer or adze off for drytooling. Just find a nut that fits the bolt that joins the head/pick/hammer. I have seen it done, it works fine. There is a beveled notch in the pick that keeps it from swiveling. Try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 What is the distance from the bottom of the bracket to the top of the rubber grip on your tools?? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 black diamond leash systems like that suck. If it worked and if it was good there would not be so many tricks to get them to each person's standard or liking. The android leashes are garbage. The clink around and annoy me. Â Simple leashes rule. Grivel and Charlet have the best tools on the market. Aside from the all around DMM fly that is. Â Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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