lizard_brain Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Hi, I could go on and on about this, but I'm not going to. Here's what I will say: I try to buy goods that are made in places (not necessarily the USA) where workers are treated fairly. I can't say that I make 100% on this, but I do OK. My choice not to buy products made by Omega Pacific can be boiled down to one simple fact, for the sake of this discussion. The prison workers do not have the right to organize for the purpose of collective bargaining. In my mind, the discussion can stop right there, as the lack of right to such is for me a deal-breaker. I'll bet that half of the products in your home are made in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I'll bet you are right, and the reason it it only half is because I try to make an effort. [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: allison ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeTool Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 allison, were you at WTO? whoops sorry...d r i f t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_Jake Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Whats wrong with China? If it works then use it. I mean are we really going to go to all the effort to reasurch the manufacturing of a coffee maker or how about your washer and dryer, mybe, just maybe I'll give all that shit away to some one who really needs it... ... wouldn't that be great or should I say ironic that I would give a homeless person a coffee maker made by a eight year old... but really folks, It would be nice to save the world.... but is it our right to do so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 If you do not shop at Salvation Army or Value Village you are a facist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_Jake Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Hey now I shop at Value Village and I'm still a Facist... ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 So you run in there every morning, buy up all the good shit, run over to Second Ascent and sell it to them at a profit to supplement your stock options, and look down on the people who have to shop at Second ascent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard_brain Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I make everything I need out of grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by lizard brain: I make everything I need out of grass. Do you girth hitch grass slings to wire nuts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard_brain Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: Do you girth hitch grass slings to wire nuts? Oh god please don't go there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_Jake Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 oh yes Bug stocks are at 63 1/2 a share if you would like to buy some... and to the grass... if it smokes, inhale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Realestate dude. The biggest pile of shit wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Prison labor is a bad trend in America- the largest office furniture manufacturer in America was forced into bankruptcy by Michigan prison labor producing same type of furniture. There the prison system itself is the manufacuturer of all sorts of products and the prisioners get the 75 cents or buck fifty an hour. I understand market trends drive industry and understand how cutting costs increases the bottom line and can help keep consumer prices down-but, essentially, any manufacturer who's using prison labor makes the decision to employ convicted felons instead of hardworking law abiding citizens to save some bucks, taking jobs away from average joes and having rapists and child molesters work for them. That pisses me off! Same with the Bush administration plan to make it easier for illegal immigrants to work here. WTF? Why? Oh, I'm NOT pro union, I own things made in China and I have OP gear. The world's not a perfect place. [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: Beck ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_Jake Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Shit is exsactaly what I use for freilizing my organic garden... but just because I eat organicly groun vegys doesn't mean that I don't like to go out and kill bambie and his mom for dinner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Beck: Prison labor is a bad trend in America- the largest office furniture manufacturer in America was forced into bankruptcy by Michigan prison labor producing same type of furniture. There the prison system itself is the manufacuturer of all sorts of products and the prisioners get the 75 cents or buck fifty an hour. I understand market trends drive industry and understand how cutting costs increases the bottom line and can help keep costs down-but, essentially, any manufacturer who's using prison labor makes the decision to employ convicted felons instead of hardworking law abiding citizens to save some bucks, taking jobs away from average joes and having rapists and child molesters work for them. That pisses me off! Same with the Bush administration plan to make it easier for illegal immigrants to work here. WTF? Why? Oh, I'm NOT pro union, I own things made in China and I have OP gear. The world's not a perfect place. It's not that bad in places where the prisoners are required (by state law) to be paid wages equal to the industry standard. In Washington, they get paid industry standard or minimum wage, whichever is higher. I'm guessing that the real sick thugs are not the ones in prison work programs, either. Joe Law-abiding Citizen is not necessarily a harder worker, either... would you work harder if the prize for doing so was getting out of prison early, or if the prize was yet another piece of stereo equipment (or even a nice new set of ice tools)? Eh, I'm just speculating, whatever. [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: slothrop ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I only use gear made by Iraqi political prisoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Beck: Prison labor is a bad trend in America- the largest office furniture manufacturer in America was forced into bankruptcy by Michigan prison labor producing same type of furniture. There the prison system itself is the manufacuturer of all sorts of products and the prisioners get the 75 cents or buck fifty an hour.[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: Beck ] Maybe Micro$oft should hire prison labor to krush their competition, they could do it for cheaper, workers could never leave, and since the workers have been in prison they might know something about security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imorris Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jon: they might know something about security. warning geek crap forthcoming... Maybe M$' BackOffice team could learn something from prisoners' back-orifice security systems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jon: Maybe Micro$oft should hire prison labor to krush their competition, they could do it for cheaper, workers could never leave, and since the workers have been in prison they might know something about security. Who would you trust to write your code: a prisoner or Capt Caveman??? Thats a tough one huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 It may not be that bad for the prisioners and I can't expect profit driven corporations to make ethics based decisions vs. economic forces. Or to have legislators stop listening to PAC contributors. It still gets me, that states encourage the growth of prison labor. It's preferential treatment all the way, the state wins out, the manufacturer makes out, the prisioner makes out. So why stop with the manufacturing sector? I've got a great idea. Let's get the prisioners jobs in Olympia! They could replace the french chef who caters to the state senators. Maybe the skilled ones could become Social Sercice workers or run the phone lines for the govenor. Or, get the guys on work release to become school bus drivers. Hey, they've BEEN rehabilitated, haven't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Beck: It may not be that bad for the prisioners and I can't expect profit driven corporations to make ethics based decisions vs. economic forces. Or to have legislators stop listening to PAC contributors. It still gets me, that states encourage the growth of prison labor. It's preferential treatment all the way, the state wins out, the manufacturer makes out, the prisioner makes out. So why stop with the manufacturing sector? I've got a great idea. Let's get the prisioners jobs in Olympia! They could replace the french chef who caters to the state senators. Maybe the skilled ones could become Social Sercice workers or run the phone lines for the govenor. Or, get the guys on work release to become school bus drivers. Hey, they've BEEN rehabilitated, haven't they? Isnt it kinda sad that the prison industry is the one of, if not the, fastest growing industries in the US?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 All the more reason to fight the war on drugs! More bodies into the labor pool! And no early release for you possessors of the evil weed (or the evil speed, a whole different can of worms)the states would rather let the rapists and murderers out first. Lady justice may be blind(ed) but she's weeping thru the blindfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMAZONIA Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: Camazonia wrote:"The USA was built on UNION labor and is the backbone of this country.....the USA would not be the leader of the free world had it not been for union labor." Oh spare me. Union labor is only one part of a sophistcated and diverse economy. Unions had nothing to do with westward expansion, little if anything to do with Tech advances, and are shrinking in numbers because they are so inflexible and corrupt. The corruption element is a major reason why Unions are having such problems today. I believe unions have thier place, but reason we are the leader of the free world? Get over it. Go Michael!!! I am going to run out and get some of the new biners. Anyone seen these in stores yet? Let me see let's make this short Davis Bacon Act Boeing airplanes WW2 union laborGrand coulee Dam union labor WW2Those high rises a lot of you cubicle people work in union laborTwin towers 9-11 union labor Fire fighters of 9-11 unionAll major structuers and bridges of the USA union labor 520 bridge I-90 bridge. Even Bill Gates was smart enough to build with union labor I think you are suffering from cerebralrectumitis [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: CAMAZONIA ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Camazonia forgot my favorite product of trade unionism in the USA: The 40-hour work week. It's still a little too loooong for me, but hey, it could be a lot worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I work as "management" (non-union) for a large corp and oversee union employees. As a right-of-center Bush loving (both kinds) Republican let me state that........... Manual labor, skilled and "unskilled", and factory/production line jobs SHOULD be union. Without union support our $20+/hr employees would probably be $9/hour employees. Additionally, I believe that unions protect aging employees. There are certain things a 20 yr. old can do that a 55 yr. old no longer can...at least not in the same amount of time. Without union support, older employees would be screwed. Where unions go wrong is the fact that they still don't seem to understand why American business is going overseas. When a company tells a union, "we can't afford that kind of wage increase", do they honestly think it's a bluff? What protection does a union offer its members when that company closes its doors and goes overseas? None. I'm also curious as to why compulsory union dues can be used for political purposes against the wishes of individual members. This should be changed by law. I know dozens of Teamsters who would love to "opt out" of the political/financial network. I know a few school teachers likewise. Yes, unions are a BIG part of what made/makes this country great. And yes, non union employees like me DO benefit indirectly from unions. Were it not for labor unions the average living standards in the USA would be lower. Additionally, union pride is part of what makes union products/services (usually) superior. Unfortunately, lofty union wage demands combined with pathetic prevailing wages overseas makes the future of the American union worker questionable. My old American made Moonstone parka is almost worn out. What should I replace it with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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