Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
kweb

Sleeping pads for cold weather

Recommended Posts

I have noticed that many gear lists for Denali suggest using 2 pads... a therm-a-rest and the ridge rest. Combined they offer an R value of 5.2. and weight of 30ozs (3/4 length ultra light and full length ridge rest). I currently use a Mt. Hardware High Mt. 60. R value is 6.75 and weighs 32ozs. While the overall thickness of the combo is 1.63" (compaired to 1.125"), 4 ounces lighter and 12" longer....The Mt. Hardware pad has a higher R value. What do you all think is a better choice? grin.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

kweb,

I took two pads my first time up there. It was a bit better with two, but one is fine. I have used one pad for years. I use a thick ridgerest, which I cut down in length to my exact height so it isn't too bulky. I personally don't like Thermarest's because they eventually find a way to get a hole in them, and they are too heavy.

If you plan on having a fat basecamp somewhere to use between climbs, then bring two, but for alpine climbs one is all I recommend. The snow isn't any colder on Denali than anywhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My tried and true:

Cushy base camp-- Any thermarest and the 15mm evalite (the ubiquitous yellow pad). Check http://www.mec.ca/Main/home.jsp. I see the brand is Evazote these days.

Alpine route-- Just the evalite. 19 oz. includes various bits of duct tape and a handy tie-in loop.

Cheers,Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems I once read that closed-cell foam is always warmer since what really counts is "dead air", not thickness. Open-cell inflatables (like the Therma-Rest) supposedly allow for little internal air currents which conduct heat away from you. It's kind of like a double-pane storm window. One might think that a bigger gap between panes would provide more insulation, but in reality, the warmth of the inner pane causes adjacent air (or some kind of gas) between the panes to rise, while the cool outer pane cools the adjacent air, causing it to fall. When the gap between panes is thick enough, a current sets up in which air on the warm side of the gap rises to the top and then shifts to the cold side and falls into the cold side of the gap (replacing the cold air that falls down). The falling cold-side air eventually shifts to the warm side to replace the rising warm air. Of course, this circulation takes warmth away from the inner pane and transfers it to the exterior of the home. Storm windows are actually designed with a very narrow gap between panes to discourage these little "heat-pump" currents.

The combo-system is supposed to be more comfortable. Some people find that a closed-cell pad on top of packed snow is just too hard for their liking.

Two pads in the winter is a rule for me. If you find that sleeping on your side keeps you warmer than sleeping on your back, that's a sign that you could benefit from a second pad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the snow is colder anywhere the temperature is colder. Snow will not be 32 F if the temperature is -70 F. If it drops below what your padding will insulate you from, you will get cold from below.... Denali can be frigin bug freezing cold too. Still, it is a good idea to pack as light as possible without shorting yourself on the essentials. Lizard brain probably has it right. I do the same basic thing. I also take a thermarest for base camp but mostly because I have an old shoulder injury that acts up if I sleep on it on hard ground.

Lots of people go up there in May-June and never see the really cold weather that can and does happen accaisionally. Don't underestimate what Denali can throw at you. There are a few frozen people up there who guessed wrong. frown.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Bug:
Actually, the snow is colder anywhere the temperature is colder. Snow will not be 32 F if the temperature is -70 F. If it drops below what your padding will insulate you from, you will get cold from below.... Denali can be frigin bug freezing cold too. Still, it is a good idea to pack as light as possible without shorting yourself on the essentials. Lizard brain probably has it right. I do the same basic thing. I also take a thermarest for base camp but mostly because I have an old shoulder injury that acts up if I sleep on it on hard ground.Lots of people go up there in May-June and never see the really cold weather that can and does happen accaisionally. Don't underestimate what Denali can throw at you. There are a few frozen people up there who guessed wrong.
frown.gif" border="0

Okay I guess my science facts are a little off. You're probably right. My first trip up there was in early April on the Muldrow- we got trapped on the Harper in a three day storm, during which time the mercury read -60 at night/-40 during the day for three days, a bunch of our shit blew away, including me flying ten feet airborne in a gust (i'm not exaggerating) that had to have been 125 mph+ while I was outside trying to resecure our tent guylines. I lost 17 pounds in 20 days while on a 6000 calorie a day diet. My facts on the snow temperature are off because I think my brain got frostbite on that trip. which explains everything else about me. rolleyes.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, another thing: Note that when snow or water gets on a Ridgerest type pad, it ain't easy to brush it off. I'm sold on the simple foam pad concept.

It's a wonderful place up there, enjoy.Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, yeah, a foam and thermarest is great, but resolve this one - which one goes on the bottom? [Wazzup]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by moron:
Yeah, yeah, a foam and thermarest is great, but resolve this one - which one goes on the bottom?
[Wazzup]

I would suggest that you alternate between the two choices. This way, they're more likely to perpetuate that spark between them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't it be better with the foam on top so you don't lose heat lost through thermarest convection?

Mr. Pope, Pad porno is no longer permitted on the climbers board. Thank you for your cooperation. [hell no]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by NoBolt:
Pads are for Wimps! I sleep on my gear.

I'm sure that would be incredibly comfortable for three weeks. Not to mention if you got stuck in your tent during a storm and were lying on all your stuff for a week straight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by NoBolt:
Pads are for Wimps! I sleep on my gear.

Tents are also for wimps. "Men who sleep in tents lead sheltered lives." I've heard this statement attributed to Fred Beckey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by pope:

Tents are also for wimps. "Men who sleep in tents lead sheltered lives." I've heard this statement attributed to Fred Beckey.

Genghis (Chingis) Khan lived in a tent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"My first trip up there was in early April on the Muldrow- we got trapped on the Harper in a three day storm, during which time the mercury read -60 at night/-40 during the day for three days, a bunch of our shit blew away, including me flying ten feet airborne in a gust (i'm not exaggerating) that had to have been 125 mph+ while I was outside trying to resecure our tent guylines. I lost 17 pounds in 20 days while on a 6000 calorie a day diet. My facts on the snow temperature are off because I think my brain got frostbite on that trip. which explains everything else about me."

Dude! Great story. Hope you 're not typing with one finger. If that's not funny, slap me. Er... poke me.

Closed cell definately belongs closest to your body if it gets cold enough to wonder about it. [geek][sleep]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Matt:

Genghis (Chingis) Khan lived in a tent.

and he was a pansy. Everyone knows that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last time I was on Rainier, I only had 3/4 length Z rest and a 45 degree bag. I was uncomfortably cool at night. By the end of night one, tent in the same location, I was laying in a bowl. You know, when your body had melted the snow under where your torso has been. shoulder blades and ass stayed cold.

Why do sleeping bag manufacturers even bother to put highly compressable insulation on the bottom of bags. You just crush it flat when laying on it.

It stands to reason that to get the same temp rating out of a bag, remove the insulation from the bottom of the bag and distribute it on top.

Or to have the same weight sleeping system, remove the insulation from the bottom and have a better pad.

Kweb, remember that sleeping bag ratings are based on 2 1/2" of padding.

tongue.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by kweb:
I have noticed that many gear lists for Denali suggest using 2 pads... a therm-a-rest and the ridge rest. Combined they offer an R value of 5.2. and weight of 30ozs (3/4 length ultra light and full length ridge rest). I currently use a Mt. Hardware High Mt. 60. R value is 6.75 and weighs 32ozs. While the overall thickness of the combo is 1.63" (compaired to 1.125"), 4 ounces lighter and 12" longer....The Mt. Hardware pad has a higher R value. What do you all think is a better choice?
grin.gif" border="0

Take them both.

I don't understand the discussion here--you are asking about Denali right? Its not like you're doing it Twight style in a single 4-hour push from Kahiltna International Airport. You're pulling a fucking sled, fer crissakes. Take all the damn pads you can carry, along with a few camp chairs and a gas-fired BBQ. You'll be damn glad you did. When your tent-bound for a week at 14K trying to negotiate the indentations in the snow melted out from the lack of protection your puny .3mm thick, 6" long frame pad that you pulled from inside your pack. . jesus, someone stop me now.

You're going to have plenty of time to think about what you left behind. Bring an extra pad. You'll be glad you did. Put all the light stuff in your pack, load the sled with the heavy stuff then tell your partner you have lower back problems and can't pull a sled.

Have a good time and sleep well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Bug:
Dude! Great story. Hope you 're not typing with one finger. If that's not funny, slap me. Er... poke me.

Got all ten fingers and toes. I got some very minor frostnip on my fingertips but amazingly that was all. Can't say the same for one of my partners, who lost the ends of two toes, and also got frostbite on two fingers each hand. We had to move during the storm, in 50 mph winds and forty below(an improvement from earlier...), to get into a more sheltered place. Not good, especially when you haven't been able to operate the stove the past 36 hours and are dehydrated as a result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im with RBW. It is fucking cold up there. If you are doing the west but then take all the shit you can drag, everyone else does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Matt:

Genghis (Chingis) Khan lived in a tent.

and he was intentse! wink.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×