lummox Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 i like to place and clip bomber gear while following a crack system and i like to clip big fat bolts when no other gear is around. it is the rare bolt i come across that i dont like. straight tripping: it is easier to place a quickdraw than any other piece of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 i'll ask nicely, one more time, please don't turn this into a bolt v. trad thread. there's been some good posts and i'd like there to be more. i agree w/crack's point about the grade. at this point i am talking about easy to moderate routes. nothing harder than .10- For example, i found myself last w/e perfectly happy and comfortably leading a fairly long and sustained .9 crack but that same afternoon a .9 sport route had me shaking between bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 minx said: at this point i am talking about easy to moderate routes. nothing harder than .10- For example, i found myself last w/e perfectly happy and comfortably leading a fairly long and sustained .9 crack but that same afternoon a .9 sport route had me shaking between bolts my understanding of statistics leads me to believe that one observation dont mean much. so here is another: most of the moderate face routes i have climbed were heinously runnout. one or two bolts per pitch kina stuff. it focuses the mind wonderfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 So Minx what 5.9 crack was it? COuld you place pro anywhere on it? Was is sustained? Strenuous? What was the 5.9 bolted? How was it bolted? Were there ledges you were concerned with hitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 pp. you need like mouseclick lessons or sumpin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Peter_Puget said: So Minx what 5.9 crack was it? COuld you place pro anywhere on it? Was is sustained? Strenuous? What was the 5.9 bolted? How was it bolted? Were there ledges you were concerned with hitting? lets for the sake of general discussion leave the particular crack out of it. no reason other than since it was my lead, my impressions of it are what mattered not everyone's experience on it. yes, it was sustained strenuous. not a lot of breaks but pro just about anywhere i wanted. had to run it out a little in a few spots. the bolts were reasonably spaced, no it would not have been a clean fall but the route was fairly short so it wasn't particularly tiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 So maybe it's a feeling of loss of control while on the bolted climb. Right now I would have no hesitation trying to lead most .12 routes at Indian Creek and yet I would succeed at none of them. I wouldnt hesitate simply because I could control my own destiny so to speak by placing pro whenever I wanted – when I would fail I would simply hang. Do you think that a trad route without obvious protection placements visible from below be more intimidating to you than the crack route you lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 good question PP- and that's the reason i think that cracked's point is good- i don't know. i would probably be less intimidated by a trad route w/o obvious protection than a bolted route of similar grade. it's clearly a comfort level/control issue w/me. i trust my gear placements so as long as i feel like i'm going to have them, i'm happy. the question just stuck in my mind b/c so many people have suggested i get back to leading by clipping bolts rather than trad routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 The thing I find intimidating about trad climbing isn't going above my pro per se but convincing myself that I won't regret getting somewhere. That is to say it is not fear of the pro I have placed but fear of not being able to place pro later the route. [Of course being an out of shape wanker doesn't give me much confidence that I could hang out long enough to figure something out if I got into a jam either.] PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryad Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I can totally relate to that. Not just climbing up somewhere where there might not be pro, but also accidentally wandering into 5.10 territory when I'm only a, say, 5.7 leader. Not being sure if I'm on route really makes me nervous. That's the good thing about bolts - hard to get lost. (Standard disclaimer: But of course I'm just a newbie dork, so what do I know.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) I can follow an toprope about the same(.10ish)... sport and trad. I lead about the same(.7ish) too. maybe I am just a freak Edited October 24, 2003 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Greg_W said: thelawgoddess said: no, you're not. in general i prefer to lead on gear. [...] Didn't you used to be the other way at one time, though? If so, why the change? (just looking for insight). yeah, i guess so ... and it's probably because i didn't trust the gear. now i know better. i *can* trust the gear, and more importantly, i can trust my placements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 dryad said: I can totally relate to that. Not just climbing up somewhere where there might not be pro, but also accidentally wandering into 5.10 territory when I'm only a, say, 5.7 leader. Not being sure if I'm on route really makes me nervous. That's the good thing about bolts - hard to get lost. (Standard disclaimer: But of course I'm just a newbie dork, so what do I know.) dryad, i thought about this post this w/e. i was climbing with someone who wouldn't have been able to bail me out if i'd ended up off route, in harder territory than i feel comfortable leading. interesting, good point. i've wandered off route into "uncharted" waters before. it's not a great feeling but i was lucky enough to have a good partner who bailed my sorry ass out. i realized that i most often climb with partners who are stronger climbers than i am. a false sense of security to be sure, but none the less it does add to the comfort factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 minx, i understand what you're saying but at the same time it really troubles me. i think it is VERY IMPORTANT to be able to get yourself out of almost any situation (and/or to make sure you don't get yourself into a situation you won't be able to get yourself out of). i know sometimes it's impossible to foresee everything and rescues are inevitable, but being able to work yourself out of a wrong turn will give you way more comfort than having to rely on someone else to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 believe me, i was troubled at the time. however, i will say this. at no point was it anywhere close to a rescue situation. in this case it was a partner who was able to help me keep my head about me and safely backtrack myself to more secure ground. and this was quite a long time ago. what i realized this weekend is how much confidence having a partner who could've climbed the sketchy section had i had to bail on the pitch gives me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 minx said: what i realized this weekend is how much confidence having a partner who could've climbed the sketchy section had i had to bail on the pitch gives me. gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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