Jens Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 (edited) I wish.... that we could all get together and clear the 300 yards of annoying brush that goes from the parking lot upper picnic table to the clearing for the climber's route to Cascade pass. It is so short and it would be absolutely zero envornmental impact. It is such a drag to suit up for 10 minutes of burly brush and then strip down after entering the clearing. Anbody else do this different then I do (after all the snow is gone)? Would the park service ever sanction this? --------- PS. For those that think that everyone should stay on the trail all the way, there is , old pieces of cable, and ancient mule trails all over up there (mostly between 4,000-4,800 ft.) - so the impact of taking this shortcut is neglible. The tourist trail is ridiculously slow (37 swithcbacks). __________ perhaps this post will direct more traffic through the bushes and clear a path? ___________ Any thoughts? What do others do? The clearing can be accesed brush free from the lower hairpin but it is slower. ____ Edited October 21, 2003 by Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Napalm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Can't you start from the last switchback of the road, just below the parking lot (where its next to the river), for a brush-free route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 klenke said: Napalm? Napalm is aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I would be all over this. There is nothing scenic about some shitty brush in an avy gully next to a road. I agree that it would be so much nicer to avoid the 37 flat switchbacks from hell and the hundreds of gapers it atracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa_Eagle Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Count me in on this too. I've only done the trail once, but that was more than enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticNacho Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Count Nacho in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 You guys are gonna get in trou-ble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 careul guys the tool watches this site. and they will come back with some stupid enviromental statement on how if everyone made the thrails they wanted then who knows how fucked up the area could get it. tho i see it as they read the "roolz" like cops and hot humans. they build the trails for the horses and that is why there are 49759023457475 0 switch backs. but guess what fuck the horses, they national park land was set aside for humans to enjoy not some beast of burden to shit all over and spread noxious weeds. the national park service should listen to the people who enjoy, care for and use the park not the moronic enviomental b.s. on the rapid ecceleration of soil eorsion due to "renegade" trails. but since they are too busy being cops in the wilderness they will not listen or care what the actual owners of the land have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnnut Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 philfort said: Can't you start from the last switchback of the road, just below the parking lot (where its next to the river), for a brush-free route? I'd say yes under the conditions where this shortcut is really practical. In early season conditions no napalm/agent orange is needed. Later in the season you've probably got more to deal with than what a near-the-road defoliation session can address anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I agree with MtnNut that it is probably a better "shortcut" early in the season when brush and rocks are covered with snow. The frustration with those switchbacks is not new. I believe that folks like Manning and Spring raised the issue with the Feds thirty years ago, and a certain Mr. Beckey may have gotten into the act as well. Cry as we might I wouldn't expect them to do much for us, though, because they generally don't really build many new trails or even do a lot of maintenance on those that they have -- other than the roadside trails that are for families like Big Four Mountain or the Rainy Lake trail at Rainy Pass (they built a nice new trail at Thunder Creek Campground a few years back, too; and yes, I know that all of these are not exactly in the Park). I understand that they did a nice job on the re-route of that Eldorado Basin route a few years ago (I haven't been there when the snow was gone), but that was in response to a real erosion problem and it was not done in order to provide a more pleasing experience for hikers too impatient to follow a perfectly good trail. Although I agree with some of Erik's sentiment, I can't really argue that they ought to let a bunch of untrained and unsupervised yahoos from cc.com go up there and tear into the hillside at Cascade Pass, nor do I think this is a higher priority than, say, fixing up the trail to Boston Basin. Write your Congressmen about it, but don't expect much to change any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 what if we made an rv campground at the top of cascade pass? i bet the nps would be down for that! think of the revenue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 What about an adopt-a-trail program done by climbers for this trail? Who wouldn't mind spending a weekend day clearing the trail up to the past on Saturday and blitzing up a one day ascent of a surrounding peak the following day? That is all it would need, with the majority of the work coming in the first year. After that, it is basic maintenance and occasional avy debris from the year before. Even if the trail was as enclosed as the BB trail is at the beginning, that is all climber's would need. Very low impact in an area that is mostly void of vegetation because of the avy terrian to begin with. Any thoughts? I'd put in a weekend once a year to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 mtnnut said: philfort said: Can't you start from the last switchback of the road, just below the parking lot (where its next to the river), for a brush-free route? I'd say yes under the conditions where this shortcut is really practical. In early season conditions no napalm/agent orange is needed. Later in the season you've probably got more to deal with than what a near-the-road defoliation session can address anyway. Yes, for much of the climbing season my brush is a non issue. As for taking the lower swithcback down the road as was mentioned by Phil, you can avoid much of the brush taht way but it is a slower route time wise and it always seems like such a psycholgical drag to start hiking down hill AND down a road away from the route to start your climb. I don't think we need to clear a short path but if everyone starts cutting in at the same spot (by a little clearing where people often pitch a tent), this will soon become a non issue. (Flagging tape anyone?). ------------------- The 37 switchback trail is one of the flattest anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 mattp said: Cry as we might I wouldn't expect them to do much for us, though, because they generally don't really build many new trails or even do a lot of maintenance on those that they have I disagree. Even in my limited outings the last couple years I've noticed a lot of new trail "improvements" that have added silly distance and switchbacks to otherwise fine trails. That moronic trail to Cascade Pass, the Ingalls/Longs Pass trail, and the PCT from Snoqualmie Pass to Kendall Pass are three examples of some idiot(s) with surveying tape getting way, way out of control. There is nothing graceful, elegant, or scenic about these trails. The Ingalls trail in particular is an ugly blight on the hillside. Horses and hikers are a bad mix anyway. I'll opt for a little brush, no horseshit, and a shorter walk almost every time. -L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 From the thread: Who has been maintaining the Boston Basin Trail ncascadesranger said: The avalanche debris: Given that the route into BB is in the "cross-country zone" classification the Park will not automatically clear this debris, as it would have if that avalanche had hit the nearby Cascade Pass trail (in the maintained constructed trail classification). The management plan for this Wilderness states that most of it will be free of human manipulation (from trail construction to tramways) and again, we find that most North Cascades users want it that way. When mother nature splashs a little more risk and challenge into the experience in the form of unpleasant debris to cross, the NPS can't get subjective about what the Wilderness Plan dictates. However, nothing is 100% unchangeable in land management - it's your Park - and questions or most importantly comments, are best made to the ranger station in Marblemount and/or the Superintendent. My guess is that would more likely get the debris cleared over encouraging others on this site to bring their pruning shears. And it's true, the public isn't allowed to take on their own trail (or other resource management) projects in National Parks. Kelly Bush, Park Ranger North Cascades National Park 360-873-4500,x35 I imagine the response would be much the same here considering the fact that they've already got a trail to CP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Just do it and don't ask too many questions. Don't brush it out for the first 100 ft from the parking lot. Oh, and don't get caught with loppers in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Just don't do it. Yes, that stoopid trail is more than a little annoying, but it really doesn't take all THAT much longer than the shortcut and the Cascade Pass area is a high use area that I for one am glad to see them manage with an eye toward containing impact. If you want to go brush out a trail in some logging slash below the new wall by Zeke's drive in, nobody will probably care but if you start cutting trails in the Park you are just going to get the rangers to be even MORE active in disliking and disserving climbers. I honestly feel that rangers have generally lied to me and discouraged my climbing plans more than they have given me useful information or helped me, but this "fuck em; we'll just take matters into our own hands" attitude is not the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Not sure what all the fuss is about. If anyone should complain about those swithchbacks it should be me.(50 roundtrips? 100?) How often do you guys go up to CP? Going up to the yawning glacier for an after work iceclimbing burn? - Doubt it, probably just a handful of times a year. Anyhow- an early season direct route on snow makes sense, go for it. But after the snow is gone, the trail really makes the most sense. Mattp and Erik - where's the love bros? there's only one Larry the Tool, save the 'tude for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Geordie - we've talked about the historical tension between climbers and rangers at great length and I am only acknowledging the situation for what I think it is. I do encourage folks to look ahead and try to find where we can work with you guys, though, and I've already said that I totally agree with you about that particular trail - it is annoying but how hard is it, really, to STAY ON THE TRAIL in one of the most popular areas of the entire North Cascades National Park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 So, is it true that the current retarted trail was built at that super low grade because they were once considering a road all the way up to cascade pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 That's what Nelson says in volume II: "Ascend the trail-graded to a nearly perfect 10 percent grade in anticipation of a road across Cascade Pass..." (p.139) It sure didn't feel like a 10 percent grade to me, though, more like nearly dead flat. The road from Longmire to Paradise is 6 percent, and it feels steeper than the Cascade Pass trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Yah, I would agree, it really doesn't seem like 10% anywhere on that trail. Isn't the "railroad grade" going up to the easton glacier on baker nearly 6% or 10% (whatever the railroad standard is)?? That feels steeper than the cascade pass sidewalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pms Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 A little over a year ago I used the direct route to Cascade Pass for a climb of Mix-up with my friend Doug. Doug uses this route regularly and says he got back down to the parking lot from the pass in about 10 minutes once in the early summer with snow cover. After the snow is gone lower down and what we did was start at the last swithback on the road, and just below the parking lot. We crossed the creek to the south side and then followed close to the creek for a ways until we were able to cross back to the north side above the large brushy patch above the parking lot. From here it was pretty smooth sailing and certainly faster that the trail. There is a small path through the cliff band and then not much further to the pass. When I talked with Mike Swayne about it he said he used to use it all the time in the 60's as did others. Not everyone will like this route however as there is some talus hidden under the bushes. On the other hand if more folks start going this way there wil be a nice path before to long. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Do you recall how long it took you to go the direct way Jim? I've only ever done it on skis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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