lancegranite Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Allow me to fire the first shot... I grew up trad...learned to climb at Index. I love cracks. I'm not dissing the MERITS of either disipline of our sport. simply saying that sport is movement based and so therefore the basis of everything. By taking most of the risk out of the situation,framilarity is more quickly reached and a steeper learning curve is the result. the traditional climbing base is the challenge of engineering safety in a high risk enviroment,making it safe to operate.only thru skill and fortitude will the leader prevail. the risk that is inherent in our sport attracts people differently,some want to tame it,some want to set it free. what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 I've climbed a lot of trad face routes in Jtree, and most of them scared the shit out of me. Having routes that allow you to focus on movement is a good thing; it helps you become comfortable enough to step up to the routes that require both good technique and balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 sport climbing is the basis of bouldering bouldering is the basis of highballing highballing is the basis of trad climbing trad climbing is the basis of alpinism alpinism is the basis of dying alone in a crevasse when your partner cuts the rope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 1.trad is like... 2.bouldering is like.. 3.sport is like... 4.alpine is like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Dru said: alpinism is the basis of dying alone in a crevasse when your partner cuts the rope Maybe you should treat your partners better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Hey, he's doing us a favor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 AlpineK said: Having routes that allow you to focus on movement is a good thing; it helps you become comfortable enough to step up to the routes that require both good technique and balls. Rig a top rope. You get your safe, comfortable practice climb without making a messy bolt trail. Pure safety and pure movement is found on the end of a TR and most of the routes at J-tree can be TR'd. Everybody wins. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 jkassidy said: AlpineK said: Having routes that allow you to focus on movement is a good thing; it helps you become comfortable enough to step up to the routes that require both good technique and balls. Rig a top rope. You get your safe, comfortable practice climb without making a messy bolt trail. Pure safety and pure movement is found on the end of a TR and most of the routes at J-tree can be TR'd. Everybody wins. Just a thought. Hi Dwayner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 following tonight's logic.. top roping is really the highest form of the sport. the hardest moves will be done on TR.. the mind, free of the constraints of expectations,reaches new levels of understanding.. so, Top roping is the gateway to true understanding.. and true understanding only comes from letting go, then.. Enlightenment comes from letting go on top rope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 lancegranite said: ......and true understanding only comes from letting go, then.. Enlightenment comes from letting go on top rope! And sport climbing gives one the impression that "letting go" is without consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 following tonight's logic.. top roping is really the highest form of the sport. the hardest moves will be done on TR.. not true for all people. i climb harder on lead than on TR... mainly cause i dont give a shit about actually doing the climb. it is a mental thing. i get all psyched on lead and am just 'going thru the motions' on TR. but i am sure i am the exception rather than the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 TR's are aid Then again, so are ice tools... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 jkassidy said: AlpineK said: Having routes that allow you to focus on movement is a good thing; it helps you become comfortable enough to step up to the routes that require both good technique and balls. Rig a top rope. You get your safe, comfortable practice climb without making a messy bolt trail. Pure safety and pure movement is found on the end of a TR and most of the routes at J-tree can be TR'd. Everybody wins. Just a thought. Wrong. Top-roping by it's nature will not allow you to focus like you are forced to while on lead. The point is sport climbing allows you to learn movement and focus without scaring the shit out of you. The end result should be to transfer your ability to trad climbing. Trad is still at the top of the food chain as far as I'm concerned, but sport climbing is a good thing that you shouldn't dismiss. So jkassidy/dwayner, you told me that you think bolts are bullshit. Well have you ever rapped or belayed off a bolted anchor? I expect a yes or no answer not your typical windbag bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 scott_harpell said:not true for all people. i climb harder on lead than on TR... mainly cause i dont give a shit about actually doing the climb. it is a mental thing. i get all psyched on lead and am just 'going thru the motions' on TR. but i am sure i am the exception rather than the rule. You're not alone, I was just thinking that I feel more focused and climb better on lead, though I'm more willing to try climbs that are way out at the fuzzy edge of my limit on TR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 ak makes a good point. Although your going to be better at whatever you do more of. As in sport routes tend to be face climbs. While trad routes tend to follow cracks, corners, chimneys, etc. as far as sport or gym climbing being the basis for trad I don't beleive that because i took 3 falls on a 5.9 in the gym the other day(I suck) but I'm comfortable leading that grade on gear. So it is really just what you practice and what your good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 A good friend of mine (and a 5.12 trad-climber), says that you can't get better very quickly if you don't sport climb. He sees the progress he makes by sport climbing, and he's climbing hard enough grades to prove that it works, IMO. In contrast, I rarely sport climb, and improve by maybe a letter grade every 2 years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 lancegranite said: following tonight's logic.. top roping is really the highest form of the sport. the hardest moves will be done on TR.. the mind, free of the constraints of expectations,reaches new levels of understanding.. so, Top roping is the gateway to true understanding.. and true understanding only comes from letting go, then.. Enlightenment comes from letting go on top rope! YEP I have actualy heard this ( or something akin) or read it somewhere before...prolly here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: lancegranite said: following tonight's logic.. top roping is really the highest form of the sport. the hardest moves will be done on TR.. the mind, free of the constraints of expectations,reaches new levels of understanding.. so, Top roping is the gateway to true understanding.. and true understanding only comes from letting go, then.. Enlightenment comes from letting go on top rope! YEP I have actualy heard this ( or something akin) or read it somewhere before...prolly here bull shit... enlightenment means leaving the rope in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted October 19, 2003 Author Share Posted October 19, 2003 You mean...bouldering? Of course! Brilliant! it all starts on the smallest of stones.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 lancegranite said: You mean...bouldering? Of course! Brilliant! it all starts on the smallest of stones.. no. i bouldered when i was 3 on the jungle gym. ask that guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted October 19, 2003 Author Share Posted October 19, 2003 This guy went to preschool with Dean Potter! it really is a small world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 lancegranite said: This guy went to preschool with Dean Potter! it really is a small world! apparently your education stoped there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted October 19, 2003 Author Share Posted October 19, 2003 (edited) In the spirit of learning,I pose one more question: Why does it always have to be about anger? we dont say nice things when we're angry. lets all just be friends...A big climbing clan! big wall pen pals.. crack compatriots.. bouldering buddies.. soloing soul mates.. climbing partners. let's all pause for a moment and give thanks. Edited October 19, 2003 by lancegranite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 crack compatriots.. bouldering buddies.. stay away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted October 19, 2003 Author Share Posted October 19, 2003 no problem! we understand how you soloists are... do you ever talk to that picture of Dean? it's ok to feel lonley..we understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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